US Politics 2017

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GTF's Presidential Approval: At this moment, do you approve of Donald Trump's job as President?

Yes
18
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No
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Total votes : 91

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Togetik » 27th August, 2017, 1:14 am

I guess someone should mention that Trump just used his presidential pardon in a comparatively unprecedented way to pardon Joe Arpaio, the irredeemably racist shitbird who laundered a significant amount of taxpayer money to racially profile latino (latinx? Not sure on the right descriptor, sorry) people, among other heinous and illegal things.

Trump basically just pardoned an unabashed racist who wasted huge amounts of taxpayer money, for what amounts to no reason at all.

Not only that, but he's gone ahead with his nonsensical trans military ban against advice from actual military personnel and proved that he doesn't care at all about veterans or people serving their country.

To top it all off, he went on a rant in a rally in phoenix (which he openly lied about attendance numbers of, with his claimed number way above the capacity for the venue and images from the venue showing that he was nowhere near capacity anyway) which basically doubled down on his vile rhetoric about pretty much everything
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Ebsy » 28th August, 2017, 7:42 pm

American politics have become so incredible stupid after the last 2 years and there is no hope in sight.
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 28th August, 2017, 8:32 pm

...and Trump/Republicans are really lucky with the map for the 2018 midterms too.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... ng-problem

:facepalm2:
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby freakism » 29th August, 2017, 10:41 am

Ebsy wrote:American politics have become so incredible stupid after the last 2 years and there is no hope in sight.

It's almost like the Democrats are a terrible opposite force to the Republicans because they can't be bothered to tackle serious, endemic problems in America and were unable to provide a hopeful platform that recognises that life for a lot of people is shit.
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 29th August, 2017, 10:46 am

Yeah, what exactly are the Democrats doing lol?
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby freakism » 29th August, 2017, 12:08 pm

Jacketh wrote:Yeah, what exactly are the Democrats doing lol?

Hur dur people don't like Trump so we'll win, just like November 2016!
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby ConnorM » 29th August, 2017, 11:52 pm

Jacketh wrote:Yeah, what exactly are the Democrats doing lol?

Well, NY state just gave all NY residents (essentially) free tuition, so Cuomo wants the presidency.
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 30th August, 2017, 12:21 am

ConnorM wrote:
Jacketh wrote:Yeah, what exactly are the Democrats doing lol?

Well, NY state just gave all NY residents (essentially) free tuition, so Cuomo wants the presidency.


Many Dems are eyeing up 2020. In 2016, most Democrats accepted that it was to be Clinton's coronation and if anyone coming up the ranks challenges her, it would probably wouldn't go down too well.

This is why, 2020 is in Bernie's hands if he wants it. The 2020 field could be much like the 2016 Republican field - absolutely packed. Harris, Booker, Cuomo, Bullock, Al Franken, who knows who else. But Sanders has now got the name recognition, and most of his supporters are pretty loyal. The "moderate" Demoratic vote I imagine will be split between a number of candidates, just like it was in the Republican primary last year in many states.

The only way the moderate-Democrats/DNC stop Bernie from winning the 2020 primary is if they put all their eggs in one candidates basket, so essentially Bernie v X. Right now, it seems like a lot of them are hedging their bets on Harris and drumming up her support. But even then, I can't really see another Democrat they could put up that could beat Sanders. He got, what, 44% of the vote against Clinton from coming from a position where very few actually new about him.

I know you don't think its the wisest move, but I just can't see anything stopping Sanders if he wants the nomination in 2020. People (especially Dems) will happily look over the age thing if he continues at the pace he has been in the last year and appears healthy.
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 30th August, 2017, 8:28 am

I'm sorry, but I reject any claim that Bernie is going to win because he is currently the most popular politician in the United States right now. Guess who the most popular politician in the United States was in early 2013? It was Hillary Rodham mothafucking Clinton. If the Republicans see Bernie as a legitimate threat to them in 2020, they will pull him apart and destroy his reputation. Its far too early to call any outcome of the 2020 primary because we don't even know who is going to run. I am willing to bet Cuomo, Harris and Booker will all be in there. (Cuomo is shit and Booker is just no)
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 30th August, 2017, 8:33 am

I never said he'll win the Presidential Election, I was on about the primary.

I don't think it is too early tbh. Like I said, he's got the name recogniton, and as you agree, the Democratic field is likely to be so split with so many people that Bernie will be able to walk it.
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 31st August, 2017, 1:55 am

Jacketh wrote:I never said he'll win the Presidential Election, I was on about the primary.

I don't think it is too early tbh. Like I said, he's got the name recogniton, and as you agree, the Democratic field is likely to be so split with so many people that Bernie will be able to walk it.

You just ignored my main point though. That just because he has name recognition and good poll numbers now, does not mean that this will hold up in the primaries in 2020. As I said, Hillary Clinton was in the same situation this time four years ago. If the Republicans see Bernie as their biggest threat, they will come after him with everything they have, like the did Clinton (only differences being they had been after her for 30 years and she isn't male).
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby freakism » 31st August, 2017, 6:07 am

Bernie Sanders has quite different policies to the current American "mainstream" and has an entirely different image to Hillary Clinton though.

All politicians get attacked by opposing parties... I know that last year the attacks were hard on Clinton, but she just didn't have much to offer voters that could help to balance out the attacks.

Jeremy Corbyn has obviously been hounded by sections of the media as well as the Tories, and yet because of his platform and policies people were able to see more than what was presented to them by the attackers. This is one of the reasons Ed Miliband didn't do well in the prior election, the attacks against him were pretty standard fare (although bringing up his deceased father was a little low) but his policies just weren't engaging enough, didn't offer enough to the electorate to countenance these blows.

The Democrats won't do well with any candidate, no matter how clean or sensible they are unless they genuinely take stock of problems with American society that their voters face.
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 31st August, 2017, 9:16 am

freakism wrote:Bernie Sanders has quite different policies to the current American "mainstream" and has an entirely different image to Hillary Clinton though.

All politicians get attacked by opposing parties... I know that last year the attacks were hard on Clinton, but she just didn't have much to offer voters that could help to balance out the attacks.

Jeremy Corbyn has obviously been hounded by sections of the media as well as the Tories, and yet because of his platform and policies people were able to see more than what was presented to them by the attackers. This is one of the reasons Ed Miliband didn't do well in the prior election, the attacks against him were pretty standard fare (although bringing up his deceased father was a little low) but his policies just weren't engaging enough, didn't offer enough to the electorate to countenance these blows.

The Democrats won't do well with any candidate, no matter how clean or sensible they are unless they genuinely take stock of problems with American society that their voters face.

I would argue that the situations are entirely different. Bernie ran a campaign that didn't have to deal with a massive negative attack campaign. And I would further argue that Clinton did have a platform that had a lot to offer people, but no one ever fucking heard about it because the narrative was just so saturated with "heres some crazy fucking bullshit Trump said" and "Clinton's emails that have nothing in them". Its a shame that CNN spent an hour watching an empty fucking stage waiting for Trump while Hillary gave a speech about jobs.

Further, the attacks against Corbyn didn't work because they were weak as fuck. His base really didn't care about his IRA sympathising history, the only people who cared were not going to vote for him anyway. Furthermore, he wasn't running against an equally sophisticated campaign. While we may think that the Trump campaign was a mess, it was actually very sophisticated campaign, the candidate was a loose fucking cannon. The Tory campaign was a shambles and a joke. But its worth noting there was still a 5.5% swing towards the Tories (largely down to the death of UKIP and the Scotland surge).

Regardless of how Bernie is perceived, his wife is being investigated by the FBI, he won't file his tax disclosures and he's estimated to have made millions on his failed presidential campaign. If the GOP wanted to bring him down, its not hard to turn people against him. They have massive warchests to throw at bringing him down. They can swamp the media and TV with information about how he's secretly corrupt or a tax cheat or they'll go low and be anti-Semitic.

But we'll see.
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Tim. » 31st August, 2017, 9:47 am

I think Bernies biggest problem come 2020 will be his age. A nearly 80 year old presidential candidate seems like a reason to be seriously concerned that he just may not have the stamina left to last at least 4 years in a roll as demanding as president. 75 seems to be about the cutoff before age really does start to be a potential negative factor.
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Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 31st August, 2017, 10:38 pm

Garcetti was in New Hampshire. Fucking hell
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