French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Lightbringer » 24th April, 2017, 3:45 pm

People have stopped taking EU for granted. They have seen what Trump has done, they have seen rise of Putin and Erdogan. Now they realize they live in the best continent on this planet under best leadership. Is it flawed? Definitely, but the fact that its doing better than rest of the world is not an opinion, its a fact. EU as a whole is the world's largest trade bloc and half the money in the world is made and traded here, with rest of the world responsible for the other half.

Everything points to anti-EU policies dying. There was some traction after Brexit and Trump victory, but in 2017 tides started turning. There was the Netherlands and Austria election, where the anti EU were utterly defeated and tossed aside. We are not talking barely 2% difference like Brexit, but actual landslides in favor of pro-EU parties. The anti-EU demonstrations decline severely and pro-EU demonstrations gained traction like never before. We are talking 1990 and before that.

A month ago, a poll was held to see how many French people support EU. 69% was in favor. It caused Le Pen to actually redact her previous statement and semi-support the Euro currency staying functional.

Both PS and LR are urging their voters to support Macron. Filled made an interesting comment:

Fillon: I will do everything in my power to prevent a Le Pen win and I urge all my supporters who were with me to do the same. Vote Macron with me and don't let radicals plague our nation.

Melenchon voters will be the most unpredictable on 2nd round, as they make up majority of protesters who are not happy with the results. Logically they should support Macron over Le Pen, but logic is not at work here.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Lightbringer » 24th April, 2017, 3:47 pm

FirePhantom wrote:Can't wait to look at XE tomorrow morning. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


2% rise for Euro already. :eli:
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby freakism » 25th April, 2017, 8:43 am

Whilst it's nice to see people, especially young people who are typically more apathetic towards voting, enthusiastic for politics a lot of people's opinions on the direction of politics in the future seem to be flawed.

In the French election the Front National actually captured a rather large percentage of younger (18-24) voters, some polls show around 40% support. It's likely that as long as the FN don't capture power soon and then embarrass themselves whilst in power that they will probably at least maintain this percentage, as the section ages and becomes more likely to vote in elections. Assuming that the vast majority of youth are naturally left-wing is naïve and short-sighted - the majority of young people, like most "normal" voters (that don't religiously follow politics and know every parties' policies on everything in-depth), just want relatively competent government which can be seen to be doing things for them. The FN promises this with a certain set of policies which are statist, authoritarian and often at the least xenophobic. But considering how poor France's employment rates, amongst other indicators, have been and continue to be a large number of people are often tolerant of illiberal policies because they see few other solutions which haven't been used and failed them before.

UKIP may be in decline, but to think that that's down to waning appetite for right-wing policies is short-sighted. The Conservatives have massively moved into UKIP's patch, and with the EU referendum over and "won" by the Leavers, UKIP has little to bank on beyond becoming more virulently racist and traditionalist. UKIP has simply been a gateway for traditional Labour voters, who generally feel neglected, to voting Conservative. The UKIPS won over significant sections of Labour voters by showing support for traditional values and providing unemployed, underemployed and poorly employed voters with a plausible scapegoat in immigrants and the system that provided the UK with half of its immigrants. With the Conservatives offering massive swathes of what used to be UKIP's appealing policies to these traditional Labour policies there is no sight of a retreat of conservatives, illiberal policies - more an entrenchment. The fact that far-right parties are getting so far into elections such as Austria's, the Netherlands', and France's should be a cause for consternation - not relief when the election is over and the far-right candidates have lost. By getting so far into the election process and receiving so much coverage helps to normalise and in turn legitimise the views of these parties, and I believe that such views are here to stay for the foreseeable future. I'd hardly say that ~8% difference between a far-right candidate and the non-far-right candidate - who is often backed by a number of mainstream parties, if not all - is a cause for relief.

Also; I'm by no means anti-EU but I think it's important that people accept how neoliberal it is. It will not always be on the side of the people, nor public services - what might be considered the best for a population at the time, because it was and still is primarily focussed on trade and smoothing international relations between countries. Significant sections of the EU are dedicated towards smoothing business and advancing corporate control of public processes. There are strict regulations on how the state can intervene, ostensibly to protect other EU countries from the competition, but it mostly benefits private companies who can run services and then only rely on the state when they've drained a business of its money and need the state to step in to finance pensions etc. The opacity of corporate lobbying's efforts to the populace of EU does no benefit to the ideals of this populace nor the EU itself. Germany has done immensely well from being in the EU because its businesses can export products to countries with less efficient businesses such as Greece and use the pressures of immigrant labour and the threat of mass unemployment to make unions accept stagnating wages and work conditions. By joining the Euro countries have shifted power not from finance ministries to Brussels eurocrats, but to opaque forums of national ministers who seek to harmonise policies, even though there are significant differences in the economies of Euro-group members. By moving decisions away national governments to European policy groups, the state can push through neoliberal, anti-worker, pro-corporate-interest policies whilst shrugging their shoulders at home and saying its out of their hands.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Lightbringer » 26th April, 2017, 3:37 am

Young voters are more emotional though. Absolute majority of young people voted for Hillary Clinton, yet no one seemed to care. Now Le Pen gets mere 10% more young vote and suddenly people are talking? Politic trends come and go like fashion does. Reports show 40% of Macron's supporters are right wing people who think Fillon is corrupt or think Le Pen is too extreme.

Right wing policies have always been in Europe, but this far right stigma is rather new and its the issue. In Netherlands its was the center-right that defeated the far right, not the left. In Austria, people were tired of the incumbent party(Left), but they still didn't want the far right in power, so they voted the Green party that ended up defeating the far right. A Green party winning an election like that was rather historic since it rarely happens. People were like "anything but far right".

Sure, EU has been neoliberal at times, but extreme nationalism and far right has not been better, in fact it has been objectively worse. People in Europe see Trump in the west and Putin and Erdogan in the east. Then they suddenly start to value EU more, and realize reforms are the way to go, not disbanding and leaving.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Dolly » 3rd May, 2017, 9:55 pm

LMFAO

"In any case, France will be governed by a woman: me or Madame Merkel."
(implying the globalist EU will rule stronger)

"Don't play games with me. We do not have a teacher-student relationship here."
(referencing to Macron's relationship with his teacher, who he is now married to. He was 15 and she was 40 with kids.)

A couple of spicy zingers against Macrony from tonight's debate. #ImWithHer
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Lightbringer » 4th May, 2017, 12:17 am

That's not really against Macron lol. He is one of the very few politicians of modern times to release every record and there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. So Le Pen is grasping at any straw to attack him because there is nothing else to attack, while she herself is facing literal corruption charges but her candidacy is giving her immunity atm. Melenchon already destroyed her in the debates for this.

At first she was attacking him with accusations of being gay, and Macron said "I'm not, but what if I were. Would you treat me like your party treated gays years ago", pointing at the fact that Le Pen's party was the most racist and homophobic party in France's modern history and only changed in recent years.

So what if he married his teacher? He waited he was an adult and the teacher was single. He was not even rich back then. They married because they like each other. No one can have a problem with this but be OK with Trump's love life.

Its rather amusing when a corrupt politician is advocating a fight against "corrupt" globalism.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Jacketh » 4th May, 2017, 1:34 am

Pity wrote:(referencing to Macron's relationship with his teacher, who he is now married to. He was 15 and she was 40 with kids.)

A couple of spicy zingers against Macrony from tonight's debate. #ImWithHer


I'm pretty sure you supported a certain candidate with a 24 year old age difference...

It illustrates how desperate Le Pen is. Every poll has Macron convincingly winning the debate, simply because she was staying stuff with simply no substance.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 4th May, 2017, 6:01 am

Macron won that debate hands down. He debunked her outrageous arguments with tact and precision
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Dolly » 4th May, 2017, 12:43 pm

Surprise, surprise, corporate-owned Emmanuel Macrony found to be possibly evading taxes in the Caribbean through corporations.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-0 ... ax-evasion
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Lightbringer » 4th May, 2017, 5:04 pm

Pity wrote:Surprise, surprise, corporate-owned Emmanuel Macrony found to be possibly evading taxes in the Caribbean through corporations.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-0 ... ax-evasion


The amount of hypocrisy is unreal. :err:

This type of tax evasion (provided this turns out to be true, doubtful) is a legal loophole. Something Trump has abused, and still abusing for decades now. I remember you saying its OK and its not a problem. Just like how the absolute majority of young people voted for Hillary Clinton and you didn't care but when merely 10% more young people voted for Le Pen you thought its worth mentioning. No one can have this much hypocrisy, unless they are suffering from cognitive dissonance. Or you are just a troll since this is the internet, but I digress.

Given that this originated from 4Chan, skepticism is a given.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 4th May, 2017, 5:45 pm




The Guardian have released a couple of short films on the French election from a perspective we outsiders don't usually get to see. Nothing they say is particularly surprising (division, neglected communities, etc.), but I enjoyed watching them.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby FirePhantom » 6th May, 2017, 3:08 pm

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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 6th May, 2017, 9:02 pm

FirePhantom wrote:Image

huge if true
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 6th May, 2017, 9:37 pm

Image

Acc love her so much.

Die capitalism.<3 <3
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 7th May, 2017, 2:00 am

JonathanT88 wrote:Image

Acc love her so much.

Die capitalism.<3 <3

:err:
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby Stark » 7th May, 2017, 6:50 am

JonathanT88 wrote:Image

Acc love her so much.

Die capitalism.<3 <3

Are we coming out as Lepénistes now? I thought we were just gonna be low-key excited if she won.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 7th May, 2017, 7:04 am

I get a bit fascist when I'm drunk.

Her victory would still be a guilty pleasure though.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 7th May, 2017, 8:30 am

so the horseshoe theory is real!
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 7th May, 2017, 10:55 am

TheBrunswickian wrote:so the horseshoe theory is real!


No.
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Re: French Presidential Election Discussion Thread

Unread postby boiii » 7th May, 2017, 11:11 am

today is the day
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