Is the European union good or bad?

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Is the European union good or bad?

Unread postby Erebos » 26th April, 2017, 3:45 pm

So since the Eu has been under some stress the last years and it is possibble it comes even more under stress I had to ask the question: is the Eu beneficial for Europe? I for one think it is, but a lot of people seem to disagree. I think it because Europe needs to stand strong between superpowers like China and the Usa, it is good for trade and for peace. What do you guys think?

Also, sorry if this has already been discussed.
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Re: Is the European union good or bad?

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 26th April, 2017, 10:06 pm

I personally support the European Union. I think it has been a force for good, and that it has ultimately contributed to peace on the continent. However, I think it needs to be reformed. It has some major flaws and significant chronic bureaucratic deadlock. As I have stated elsewhere:
- The European Central Bank needs to be answerable to someone and made more transparent
- The Commission needs to be streamlined and made more accountable to the Parliament
- The Parliament needs to be held in higher standing and valued in elections (turn out of 33% guys is shit)
- A European Finance Minister, appointed by the Council and answerable to them and the Parliament, should oversee the fiscal and monetary policy of the Union.
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Re: Is the European union good or bad?

Unread postby Vortex » 26th April, 2017, 11:14 pm

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, it's probably the most capitalistic organization on earth. In a bad way. I really liked Jean Luc Melenchon's criticisms. That said, I was anti Brexit, because I believe that Brexit happened for the wrong reason.

There's a wave of anti establishment fury sweeping the west. It has two sides. Side A is to blame immigrants for the failures of neoliberalism. Side B is to blame bankers and corporations for doing things like outsourcing our jobs to line their own pockets.

I'm Side B, Brexit was generally more Side A.
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Re: Is the European union good or bad?

Unread postby George » 27th April, 2017, 12:03 pm

The European Union is a fundamentally good organisation. For the first time in European History, we have managed to go almost a century without some war in Europe. Our people are closer together than ever. We trade, we share, we explore together as one proper union.

We came *this* fucking close to the perfect European state, and its all gone to shit over nationalist "muh history" fantasies at the expense of the working man. Its disgusting. I won't pretend the EU is without flaws, it could be more clear and sometimes more vocal,but the main issue of the EU is that it has too little power to solve crises, but too much power for nationalists to blame it for them.
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Re: Is the European union good or bad?

Unread postby Stark » 27th April, 2017, 7:07 pm

I call myself a European federalist but not a EU supporter. The power structures in the EU are incredibly undemocratic and subservient to the demands of financial elites, thinly covered by a veneer of democracy in the Parliament. The financial elites in the Troika have taken over most major policy issues in the EU, from the toppling of Greece's democratic government to the hard-line freedom of movement despite the economic damage wrought on countries with high levels of emigration and the wrongly-dismissed threat of xenophobic movements in countries with high levels of immigration. To get the European Union back on track, it needs fundamental reform to make it accountable to the Parliament and a concerted effort to energise interest in European-level politics for people who still feel very much tied to their home country. Both are mammoth tasks for different reasons; the former because it goes against the interests of entrenched elites, the latter because it would require a cultural shift bigger than anything seen in modern European history. So overall, I'm a little sceptical as to where we go from here.

Mark Blyth gives a very good critique on the EU during this (also very interesting) lecture.
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Re: Is the European union good or bad?

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 27th April, 2017, 10:01 pm

Literally when was the Greek government toppled?
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Re: Is the European union good or bad?

Unread postby Jacketh » 27th April, 2017, 11:13 pm

Stark wrote:I call myself a European federalist but not a EU supporter. The power structures in the EU are incredibly undemocratic and subservient to the demands of financial elites, thinly covered by a veneer of democracy in the Parliament. The financial elites in the Troika have taken over most major policy issues in the EU, from the toppling of Greece's democratic government to the hard-line freedom of movement despite the economic damage wrought on countries with high levels of emigration and the wrongly-dismissed threat of xenophobic movements in countries with high levels of immigration. To get the European Union back on track, it needs fundamental reform to make it accountable to the Parliament and a concerted effort to energise interest in European-level politics for people who still feel very much tied to their home country. Both are mammoth tasks for different reasons; the former because it goes against the interests of entrenched elites, the latter because it would require a cultural shift bigger than anything seen in modern European history. So overall, I'm a little sceptical as to where we go from here.

Mark Blyth gives a very good critique on the EU during this (also very interesting) lecture.


Yep, I pretty much agree with this.

I wanted us to stay in the EU for sure though. For all its faults, there is worker and environmental protection rooted in its in legislation - I fear our Conservative government will not replace or eventually repeal them.

Deals like TTIP being negotiated were not okay with me, but the collective pressure put on the EU over TTIP led it essentially being dead in the water. I fear that our trade agreements with the US (and other countries) will be worse than TTIP - particularly considering the Conservatives were absolutely clear about their support for TTIP.
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Re: Is the European union good or bad?

Unread postby Littlenorthernboy » 28th April, 2017, 6:34 am

Better movement of citizens (travel, for educational purposes for example), goods (import and export) and is bringing environment in to discussions.
Ofc many disagree with financial politics or immigration.
I would like immigration to be humane.

Pretty much agreeing with George on this one. Except, EU could have the power to solve crises, just that the outcome would be unknown due to multiple factors, from which US-Russia polarization status quo would be the first one. EU is too afraid to change the status quo that US is the sole western power acting millitarily straight forward against Russia or its allies.
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