Homophobia in music

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Homophobia in music

Unread postby Olivurh » 2nd December, 2017, 6:11 am

soo lets start this off with a recent hit that made its way to the top of the hit charts basically today! i assume most of you have already heard the perfect duet by ed sheeran and beyoncé(which is absolutely amazing).
so while listening to this song, i noticed that when beyoncé starts singing, she sings "well i found a man" and it sounds incredibly out of place. then i realized that it was because in the original song, ed sheeran sings "well i found a woman".
here, try to hear it yourself:


so what really bothers me here is, man is 1 syllable, whereas woman is 2 syllables. they made a conscious decision to completely ruin beyoncés opening line in the song, entirely so she could be straight and the song fit into a straight perspective. it really bothers me because the message that it sends is that being lgbt is wrong, that not even beyoncé could think of singing a song where she comes across as lgbt. its just a really bad message.

now ill start off by saying that in this song, i can somewhat understand the change as they most likely wanted it to be a love song duet between two straighties, but really, how much would it have hurt either of them to just sing the normal lyrics? theyre both amazing singers, it'd still become a hit song, even though the straighties possibly didn't agree with it.
now anyways, when i noticed this in the song, i immediately pulled up the lyrics and noticed that they changed another lyric.

"be my girl, i'll be your man"
when beyoncé sings it, she sings "i'll be your girl, you'll be my man"
anyways, here's the lyrics, feel free to look for other places where the straights™ have change the lyrics to fit this heteronormative ass society.
[Reveal] Spoiler: the lyrics
"Perfect"

I found a love for me
Darling, just dive right in and follow my lead
Well, I found a girl, beautiful and sweet
Oh, I never knew you were the someone waiting for me

'Cause we were just kids when we fell in love
Not knowing what it was
I will not give you up this time
But darling, just kiss me slow
Your heart is all I own
And in your eyes you're holding mine

Baby, I'm dancing in the dark
With you between my arms
Barefoot on the grass
Listening to our favourite song
When you said you looked a mess
I whispered underneath my breath
But you heard it,
Darling, you look perfect tonight

Well, I found a woman, stronger than anyone I know (this is where beyonce changes it to man)
She shares my dreams, I hope that someday I'll share her home
I found a love to carry more than just my secrets
To carry love, to carry children of our own

We are still kids but we're so in love
Fighting against all odds
I know we'll be alright this time
Darling, just hold my hand
Be my girl, I'll be your man
I see my future in your eyes

Baby, I'm dancing in the dark
With you between my arms
Barefoot on the grass
Listening to our favourite song
When I saw you in that dress
Looking so beautiful
I don't deserve this
Darling, you look perfect tonight

Baby, I'm dancing in the dark
With you between my arms
Barefoot on the grass
Listening to our favourite song
I have faith in what I see
Now I know I have met an angel in person
And she looks perfect
I don't deserve this
You look perfect tonight

thank u kam for telling me how to embed yt video
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Influp » 2nd December, 2017, 6:31 am

Wat

Also this is like one of the only ed sheeran songs I actually enjoy.. Thanks oli x
Last edited by Influp on 2nd December, 2017, 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby boiii » 2nd December, 2017, 6:32 am

I don't think that it send any message other than "Beyoncé is not a lesbian" and she isn't.

If there was a sensual song and there would be this line in it: "She touches my pale skin." and A black guy sang it then he should be able to change the line if he wants to. Maybe he could just change it to: "She touches my soft skin" too. This would not send a bad message to white people either I think.

If someone wrote a war song and this line was in it: "Fighting under the starts and stripes" and a brit would sing it he could change it to: "fighting under the union jack" depending on the context. The message would still be anti-war, but not at all anti-america.

btw, doesn't beyoncé already have a husband?
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Hierax » 2nd December, 2017, 6:33 am

I'm actually pretty sure this has nothing to do with homophobia.
Béyonce isn't LGBT, so why should she have to sing the lyrics which were directed towards a woman? I understand that they change the lyrics.
I think there's more than enough pop artists who support the LGBT-community, this doesn't mean they have to sing LGBT lyrics though.
I feel like this is looking for a problem where there isn't one.
There are also a lot of songs which are LGBT and they still do good (songs by Troye Sivan f.e.). If the artist isn't LGBT, I understand the fact that they don't change the lyrics.
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Togetik » 2nd December, 2017, 7:35 am

I don't think it's homophobia, it's definitely heteronormative and harms the song through making it clunky, but I guess i don't consider that homophobia.

I was hoping this'd be a thread where i got to complain about non-straight musicians always being forced to use gender neutral lyrics (Seriously, look at almost anything by sam smith and see how it's all gender neutral, I can't imagine that's not an intentional mandate), but alas, I guess it's for another thread
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby ConnorM » 2nd December, 2017, 4:26 pm

Togetik wrote:I don't think it's homophobia, it's definitely heteronormative and harms the song through making it clunky, but I guess i don't consider that homophobia.

I was hoping this'd be a thread where i got to complain about non-straight musicians always being forced to use gender neutral lyrics (Seriously, look at almost anything by sam smith and see how it's all gender neutral, I can't imagine that's not an intentional mandate), but alas, I guess it's for another thread


I tend to doubt that it's an intentional mandate. Besides the fact that I personally despise Sam Smith's whiny, pathetic, self-pitying nonsense, I don't for a second think that he's forced by his record label to only use gender neutral perspectives.

Quite a few songs - especially love songs - tend to use the second person, and rather few of them explicitly state masculine or feminine things within their lyrics. So, while there are the occasional "sk8er boi"-s ("He was a boy, she was a girl/Can I make it any more obvious"), they seem to be the exception, not the rule. Why? Well, it's a lot more relatable for people to have songs that they can feel that they can use. Look at how popular "Can't Help Falling in Love" remains - despite being a fifty-five year old song, new covers of it regularly top the charts, whether it's Twenty-One Pilots covering or Haley Reinhart. Gender-neutral songs are just more popular and enduring.

And it isn't as though there's some sort of industry "ban" on anything same-sex in the music industry, or even straight artists singing songs from the opposite gender perspective. Look at Halsey's hit "Bad at Love", where she sings about both male and female ex-lovers, or the Lumineer's hit "Cleopatra", which is sung from the perspective of a worn-out actress reflecting on her missed opportunity, despite being written and sung by Wesley Schulz, a straight male. When you begin to look at what songs actually do chart, the majority of the songs dealing with feelings for another person, whether positive (such as "Halo" or "Thinking Out Loud"), negative ("Jar of Hearts", "Love Song") or something in between, ("Closer" or "The Sound") don't explicitly make reference to the gender of the person that they're addressing.
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 3rd December, 2017, 8:03 am

Straight people sing from the perspective of straight people because they're straight....? Gay artists tend to use gender neutral pronouns, because that's their experience. When I'm singing along in the car or in the shower, I tend to just change the pronoun to fit the fact I'm not into women where it fits. I don't see that as homophobic, just inherently hetero-normative. The world happens to be hetero-normative, no matter how us gays might wish it otherwise.
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby CRUSTY SEA MILF » 3rd December, 2017, 10:50 am

If a song says something like "kissing her" I don't change the words to reflect my own beliefs because a. It sounds weird to me and b. I think music should be enjoyed the way it is. Ultimately, if I were listening to, say, a love song about a guy and a girl, I can still enjoy the music at face value, although I might imagine it in a more applicable sense. Would I be making out with a girl in a car? No, but I would with another guy.
However, I do feel like artists should try to create music that is more neutral in terms of describing orientation sometimes
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Olivurh » 4th December, 2017, 6:45 pm

brennan completely captures my point perfectly here ^^
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby CRUSTY SEA MILF » 5th December, 2017, 12:42 am

Olivurh wrote:brennan completely captures my point perfectly here ^^

The first time we have agreed on something :keke: :thumbsup:
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Hierax » 5th December, 2017, 12:52 pm

Olivurh wrote:brennan completely captures my point perfectly here ^^

They do change it because they are actually singing it to eachother though, I think.
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Olivurh » 5th December, 2017, 4:46 pm

Sokol wrote:
Olivurh wrote:brennan completely captures my point perfectly here ^^

They do change it because they are actually singing it to eachother though, I think.

yeah i feel the same, but i took up the thread generally for doing this in songs, since its often done for literally no reason
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby pmrhr » 31st January, 2018, 5:51 am

me the same
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Cobalt » 2nd February, 2018, 10:42 pm

Okay, I'm actually pretty passionate about this topic when it comes to the specific instance of gender pronouns in songs.

I think people who do covers on youtube need to stop changing pronouns if it makes the lyrics sound wrong. Like, I understand that you're a heterosexual, but the fact that people feel they need to assert their heterosexuality in their cover because they don't respect the original song / lyrics enough to just sing it the way it was written, it just bothers me.

Makes me wonder about people covering songs like Bad in Love by Halsey - a song with clear bisexual inclinations and with two different sets of sexual partners, male and female. Are you gonna make them all female or all male just because you're straight and fuck up half the lyrics? Like jesus christ no please relax and just sing it. Nobody gives a shit if you're singing the original lyrics if it doesn't explicitly scream that you're a straight person. And if they do they're just dumb.

And it seems like a lot of musicians that might even be gay or closeted have lyrics about women just because it's either been forced on them or they're willingly maintaining the predominantly heterosexual undertones of the music industry in what I believe is a harmful rhetoric. Allow queer artists to use same gender pronouns to describe their lovers if that's what they want without facing some sort of backlash. Bad in Love is the only song I can think of off the top of my head that has same-gender pronouns because Halsey is openly bi. But she's a woman, so the music industry is more lenient on it.

It's more of a case of toxic masculinity than anything, I think. I see this coming a LOT more from men than from women. Throwback circa 2011 when the Someone Like You covers were everywhere and everyone was like "I heard that you settled down, that you found a GUY..." like it doesn't matter even if you're straight and she found a girl because maybe she's bi or a lesbian now like IT DOESN'T MATTER just sing the damn song for fuck's sake.

When it comes to homophobia in the music industry as a whole I think that's a WHOOOOOLE nother thread and a much more expansive topic.
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby swedeam » 2nd February, 2018, 11:14 pm

Cobalt wrote:Okay, I'm actually pretty passionate about this topic when it comes to the specific instance of gender pronouns in songs.

I think people who do covers on youtube need to stop changing pronouns if it makes the lyrics sound wrong. Like, I understand that you're a heterosexual, but the fact that people feel they need to assert their heterosexuality in their cover because they don't respect the original song / lyrics enough to just sing it the way it was written, it just bothers me.

Makes me wonder about people covering songs like Bad in Love by Halsey - a song with clear bisexual inclinations and with two different sets of sexual partners, male and female. Are you gonna make them all female or all male just because you're straight and fuck up half the lyrics? Like jesus christ no please relax and just sing it. Nobody gives a shit if you're singing the original lyrics if it doesn't explicitly scream that you're a straight person. And if they do they're just dumb.

And it seems like a lot of musicians that might even be gay or closeted have lyrics about women just because it's either been forced on them or they're willingly maintaining the predominantly heterosexual undertones of the music industry in what I believe is a harmful rhetoric. Allow queer artists to use same gender pronouns to describe their lovers if that's what they want without facing some sort of backlash. Bad in Love is the only song I can think of off the top of my head that has same-gender pronouns because Halsey is openly bi. But she's a woman, so the music industry is more lenient on it.

It's more of a case of toxic masculinity than anything, I think. I see this coming a LOT more from men than from women. Throwback circa 2011 when the Someone Like You covers were everywhere and everyone was like "I heard that you settled down, that you found a GUY..." like it doesn't matter even if you're straight and she found a girl because maybe she's bi or a lesbian now like IT DOESN'T MATTER just sing the damn song for fuck's sake.

When it comes to homophobia in the music industry as a whole I think that's a WHOOOOOLE nother thread and a much more expansive topic.

i would love to see that thread, not because i agree with you, just the opposite but that,s half the fun, P.S. songs obviously talking about gay people predate hasley by about 40 years
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Cobalt » 3rd February, 2018, 12:08 am

swedeam wrote:
Cobalt wrote:Okay, I'm actually pretty passionate about this topic when it comes to the specific instance of gender pronouns in songs.

I think people who do covers on youtube need to stop changing pronouns if it makes the lyrics sound wrong. Like, I understand that you're a heterosexual, but the fact that people feel they need to assert their heterosexuality in their cover because they don't respect the original song / lyrics enough to just sing it the way it was written, it just bothers me.

Makes me wonder about people covering songs like Bad in Love by Halsey - a song with clear bisexual inclinations and with two different sets of sexual partners, male and female. Are you gonna make them all female or all male just because you're straight and fuck up half the lyrics? Like jesus christ no please relax and just sing it. Nobody gives a shit if you're singing the original lyrics if it doesn't explicitly scream that you're a straight person. And if they do they're just dumb.

And it seems like a lot of musicians that might even be gay or closeted have lyrics about women just because it's either been forced on them or they're willingly maintaining the predominantly heterosexual undertones of the music industry in what I believe is a harmful rhetoric. Allow queer artists to use same gender pronouns to describe their lovers if that's what they want without facing some sort of backlash. Bad in Love is the only song I can think of off the top of my head that has same-gender pronouns because Halsey is openly bi. But she's a woman, so the music industry is more lenient on it.

It's more of a case of toxic masculinity than anything, I think. I see this coming a LOT more from men than from women. Throwback circa 2011 when the Someone Like You covers were everywhere and everyone was like "I heard that you settled down, that you found a GUY..." like it doesn't matter even if you're straight and she found a girl because maybe she's bi or a lesbian now like IT DOESN'T MATTER just sing the damn song for fuck's sake.

When it comes to homophobia in the music industry as a whole I think that's a WHOOOOOLE nother thread and a much more expansive topic.

i would love to see that thread, not because i agree with you, just the opposite but that,s half the fun, P.S. songs obviously talking about gay people predate hasley by about 40 years

Where did I say there are no other songs about gay relationships? Lmao. I'm referring to mainstream radio at the moment.
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby swedeam » 3rd February, 2018, 12:49 pm

Cobalt wrote:
swedeam wrote:
Cobalt wrote:Okay, I'm actually pretty passionate about this topic when it comes to the specific instance of gender pronouns in songs.

I think people who do covers on youtube need to stop changing pronouns if it makes the lyrics sound wrong. Like, I understand that you're a heterosexual, but the fact that people feel they need to assert their heterosexuality in their cover because they don't respect the original song / lyrics enough to just sing it the way it was written, it just bothers me.

Makes me wonder about people covering songs like Bad in Love by Halsey - a song with clear bisexual inclinations and with two different sets of sexual partners, male and female. Are you gonna make them all female or all male just because you're straight and fuck up half the lyrics? Like jesus christ no please relax and just sing it. Nobody gives a shit if you're singing the original lyrics if it doesn't explicitly scream that you're a straight person. And if they do they're just dumb.

And it seems like a lot of musicians that might even be gay or closeted have lyrics about women just because it's either been forced on them or they're willingly maintaining the predominantly heterosexual undertones of the music industry in what I believe is a harmful rhetoric. Allow queer artists to use same gender pronouns to describe their lovers if that's what they want without facing some sort of backlash. Bad in Love is the only song I can think of off the top of my head that has same-gender pronouns because Halsey is openly bi. But she's a woman, so the music industry is more lenient on it.

It's more of a case of toxic masculinity than anything, I think. I see this coming a LOT more from men than from women. Throwback circa 2011 when the Someone Like You covers were everywhere and everyone was like "I heard that you settled down, that you found a GUY..." like it doesn't matter even if you're straight and she found a girl because maybe she's bi or a lesbian now like IT DOESN'T MATTER just sing the damn song for fuck's sake.

When it comes to homophobia in the music industry as a whole I think that's a WHOOOOOLE nother thread and a much more expansive topic.

i would love to see that thread, not because i agree with you, just the opposite but that,s half the fun, P.S. songs obviously talking about gay people predate hasley by about 40 years

Where did I say there are no other songs about gay relationships? Lmao. I'm referring to mainstream radio at the moment.

so your saying things have got worse?
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Dolly » 3rd February, 2018, 1:42 pm

this is dumb; it's just a song. i'd be concerned about Eminem calling people faggots and being misogynist than a duet song that was mutually agreed upon by both Ed Sheeran and Beyonce.
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Re: Homophobia in music

Unread postby Cobalt » 3rd February, 2018, 4:53 pm

Besides the point, Beyonce singing "be my girl I'll be your man" doesn't make any sense because she isn't a man. So the changes in that particular song are way different especially because it's a collab with the original artist.
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