It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

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It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby Wayde » 8th January, 2018, 10:48 am

I'm getting a little sick of sugar-coating the LGBT community. People often treat minority communities these days as if nothing could ever be wrong with them, and trust me, we have some serious issues people ignore. So, to combat this a little bit, I'm going to start asking some questions to hopefully get us thinking and discussing some of these overlooked issues. If you find the below subject-matter offensive, please feel free to leave this topic and pretend you never read it. But, I would love it if you would add your opinions in the comments below so we can discuss.

So, the topic I want to talk about today is this piece of news that apparently happened in October. I guess it was slightly swept under the rug, because I'm usually fairly up to date and I missed this entirely.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-gov-brown-downgrades-from-felony-to-1507331544-htmlstory.html

So, in California, it is now completely legal to, essentially, lie about your HIV status before sleeping with someone, or not tell them when you know you are positive. You can literally give someone a fatal disease and not tell them until afterwards (or at all). Where that used to be illegal, the California governor signed a bill in October that made it a simple misdemeanor. Of course, there are all kinds of stigmas around HIV and transmitting it and such, but I seriously do not see how this is okay. I have always been personally against the rampant sex lifestyle (for myself at least) that the LGBT community seems to celebrate (surveys have shown that the average gay man has between 500-1,000 sexual partners in his lifetime...Let that sink in). I personally just don't think excessive promiscuity is healthy. This, however, completely redefines that issue. Whereas before, it was merely a personal opinion on personal behavior, now it is actually a potential health hazard. Sure, as the article says, "Modern medicine allows those with HIV to live longer lives and nearly eliminates the possibility of transmission", but I personally would not feel safe even having a hookup in California if the person could intentionally lie to me and face no legal consequences.

I just want to get some opinions on this. Is this good? Bad? Both? Discuss :keke:
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Re: It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 8th January, 2018, 11:00 am

I don't think promiscuity is necessarily "unhealthy," and there is nothing inherently wrong with following desire provided you are happy and content doing so. I'm a bit sceptical of the 500-1000 figure; perhaps you have a link to back you up?

However, this is nothing but bad news, for the reasons you've stated. The desire for someone to have sex should not be more important to society than our right to protect ourselves from an often terminal disease. This makes me mad. :P
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Re: It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby Dolly » 8th January, 2018, 1:11 pm

It's a grotesque example of government putting people at harm to preemptively avoid being called bigoted. Intentionally infecting someone with an incurable disease that has lifelong social and personal detriments and only receiving a misdemeanor is terrible. I have seen those survey numbers around too, but I am skeptical of their accuracy as well. The rampant sex-crazed culture of the community makes us all look like jokes.
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Re: It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 8th January, 2018, 2:26 pm

Dolly wrote:The rampant sex-crazed culture of the community makes us all look like jokes.


It might make us "look like jokes," but I'm not sure I can bring myself to care about that when the source of the disdain is so unjustifiable. People have sex like they might eat a McDonald's: because it feels good, and yet I can't see any unhealthy side effects (cholesterol? tooth rot?) so long as the individual continues to be happy with what they do with their own body. Promiscuity only makes us "a joke" because society has, over centuries, deemed it to be unsavoury, despite having no logical reason to treat it as such.

When we follow our natural instinct to have sex, we're just following a series of biological instructions given to us from birth, and why should we control that instinct when it's not harming anyone?
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Re: It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby Dolly » 8th January, 2018, 3:01 pm

JonathanT88 wrote:
Dolly wrote:The rampant sex-crazed culture of the community makes us all look like jokes.


It might make us "look like jokes," but I'm not sure I can bring myself to care about that when the source of the disdain is so unjustifiable. People have sex like they might eat a McDonald's: because it feels good, and yet I can't see any unhealthy side effects (cholesterol? tooth rot?) so long as the individual continues to be happy with what they do with their own body. Promiscuity only makes us "a joke" because society has, over centuries, deemed it to be unsavoury, despite having no logical reason to treat it as such.

When we follow our natural instinct to have sex, we're just following a series of biological instructions given to us from birth, and why should we control that instinct when it's not harming anyone?


This seems to be another case of you debating for no other reason but to argue since this is not the main point of the thread. Sure, biologically speaking, people want to have sex. However, promiscuity is wrong because it increases the likelihood of disease transmission, indicates adultery, displays commitment issues, and correlates with drug use. The wrongness of it is opinionated, but I personally do not want younger children already downloading Grindr because they are being influenced by this behavior.
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Re: It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 8th January, 2018, 3:48 pm

Dolly wrote:This seems to be another case of you debating for no other reason but to argue since this is not the main point of the thread. Sure, biologically speaking, people want to have sex. However, promiscuity is wrong because it increases the likelihood of disease transmission, indicates adultery, displays commitment issues, and correlates with drug use. The wrongness of it is opinionated, but I personally do not want younger children already downloading Grindr because they are being influenced by this behavior.


I won't argue the point if you don't want to, but it was mentioned in the OP, you did make the argument in your own post, and I think it's pretty important. I'm itching to respond to each of those points, but I don't have to.
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Re: It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby Wayde » 9th January, 2018, 12:52 am

Yeah, as I stated in the original post, the promiscuity thing is more of a personal opinion in the end. There can be proven negatives to it, but there are also be positives (mostly in the individuals happiness, freedom, etc).

The statistics I was using come from an Exodus Global Alliance study which found that "83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners. Bell and Weinberg p 308." (exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php) I suppose to say that the average gay person has between 500-1000 is a bit too high. The average would be just below 500. I just wanted to make a point as to how high the numbers really, largely due to the extreme hookup culture within the gay community. Just to throw some more numbers out there though, that same study found that "79% of homosexual men say over half of sex partners are strangers".

The main thing I wanted to address with the promiscuity point is not that it is inherently wrong in itself (because, as I said, it's really a personal opinion), but to just show how many partners gay people have. And, if you have a lot of partners (half of which are complete strangers), that is essentially a breeding ground for sexually transmitted diseases, which is not good in a scenario where people don't have to be honest about status.
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Re: It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby Togetik » 25th January, 2018, 6:03 pm

Did you actually read the article you linked, because the title of this thread is an outright lie and we're discussing this topic as though it's not a complete lie

Downgrading it from a felony to a misdemeanour is in line from WHO(? Might be american medical association) advice and a global trend, which puts it in line with other STIs. The purpose of the change is to ensure more people get tested, because a felony-based charge for knowing infection actually makes people LESS likely to get tested, since knowing their status can open them being charged with a felony. I know it's incredibly easy to look at a headline about this and get mad, but it's for a good reason and gets genuine results so it's the best option.

Pearl clutching and whining about promiscuity isn't related to the topic at all, and i'd like to think we're mature enough here to understand that it's dumb to do that anyway
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Re: It's legal in California to give someone HIV and not tell them

Unread postby pmrhr » 31st January, 2018, 5:54 am

really ?! no way !
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