GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - GAME OVER: SCUM WIN

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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Sokol » 22nd January, 2018, 3:07 pm

Kaspar wrote:
Sokol wrote:Honestly, I'm so tilted already. I don't think town can win at the moment, so kill me already so I don't have to watch this shitfest. Trying to clear my name won't help either because I'm clearly being framed by some experienced scum or something.
I would've appreciated dying this day-phase over no lynch, to be honest.


Sokol I swear if you do not cooperate I'll go to Belgium and power-slap your ass

How am I not cooperating though? I tried my best to get people not to lynch me but it resulted in a tie, which wasn't my intention either. Lol.
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Kaspar » 22nd January, 2018, 3:08 pm

I'll be looking at your posts without absolutely pre-judged opinions, you're as good guess for me right now as almost everyone else here, just saying that
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Kaspar » 22nd January, 2018, 3:08 pm

Sokol wrote:
Kaspar wrote:
Sokol wrote:Honestly, I'm so tilted already. I don't think town can win at the moment, so kill me already so I don't have to watch this shitfest. Trying to clear my name won't help either because I'm clearly being framed by some experienced scum or something.
I would've appreciated dying this day-phase over no lynch, to be honest.


Sokol I swear if you do not cooperate I'll go to Belgium and power-slap your ass

How am I not cooperating though? I tried my best to get people not to lynch me but it resulted in a tie, which wasn't my intention either. Lol.


I mean not co-operating by saying "kill me already" :P
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Kaspar » 22nd January, 2018, 3:18 pm

Ok, so Sokol is town.
I've precisely looked how he's been reacting and behaving through all the period of him almost getting lynched and this resembles almost identically the way he bahaved when he was lynched as a town in a game. I can go with that now tbh, move over to someone else boys.
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Kaspar » 22nd January, 2018, 3:19 pm

I only trust Cobalt and nab right now tbf
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Lochlan » 22nd January, 2018, 3:21 pm

I was reading over the roles, just a quick PSA to Chancellor Valorum, whoever you are, you have the last town night kill (unless you used it night 1) so be careful with who you pick, due to the DQs every kill is precious.
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Sokol » 22nd January, 2018, 3:38 pm

C3PO's roleblock can be a usefull tool aswell, if I'm right, so I could honestly opt for him to use it on BucketTech/Lochlan (or me :p) since these are apparently the main suspects. :keke:
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby wolbre04 » 22nd January, 2018, 5:26 pm

I'm reposting this and getting rid of the dead people so its not as messy because the previous post was triggering my OCD (Credit to Nab for posting)
The Jedi:
Padme Amidala: Stunt Double, You a stunt double. Once per night you may choose for her to take your place. If you are targeted, the action will fail. Once your stunt double has been used once, she may not be used again – regardless of whether you were targeted or not.

Yoda: Jedi Master, On two nights, you may choose to protect someone. If they are attacked, you will die in their place. You cannot protect more than twice. .

C3P0: Protocol Droid, Once per night, you may target a player to distract. They will be unable to perform any actions during the night.

R2D2: Check the Camera Feed!, Once per night you may target a player. You will be allowed to observe who visits them during the night.

Chancellor Valorum: Corrupt Senator, You may control the bounty hunter on 1 occasion to decide who he kills. Players will be made aware of your identity however.

Jar Jar Binks: So This is How Democracy Dies, Your vote counts for 3. Other plays will not be made aware of this, but it will count in the votes. If you choose to reveal yourself as the mayor, it will count as 4.

Chewbacca: Wookie Defence, You may choose to go on alert. If you do, you will kill anyone who visits you. You are not invulnerable, and may still be killed if visited.

The Sith
Darth Sidious: Do It, Once per night, you may choose a character. They will die.

General Grevious: It Will Make a Fine Addition to my Collection, You may use the ability of any character killed by Darth Sidious the night before, but only for that night.

Count Dooku: Jedi Mind Tricks, Once per night you may target a player. They will not be able to use any abilities, post, or vote, until the following night/day.

Darth Maul: Battle of Naboo, You may use your powers as a Jedi Sith to overpower someone's protection, but only twice during the course of the game.

Darth Vader: Your Powers are Weak, Old Man, Once a night, you may choose a character to frame. If investigated, they will reveal to be aligned with the sith.

If the Sith are able to successfully guess 3 players roles, all three players will be killed.

Bounty Hunters
Jango Fett:Get ‘im, dad!, Once per night, you may target a player. They will die.

This leaves us at a list of (Credit to Lochlan):
Sokol
Wolbre04
Bucket
Kaspar - Townfirmed
Petre
Adyuto
Quinn
Cobalt- Townfirmed
Finch
Nab21
Lochlan
Jan

And brings us to 1 SK, 4-5 Maf, and 6-7 Town I believe (There's an extra role somewhere in there so either mafia or town has one less)
This is just like last game where town dies left and right. Unfortunately the serial killer isnt taking out mafia just randoms :l
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby wolbre04 » 22nd January, 2018, 5:27 pm

Lochlan wrote:I was reading over the roles, just a quick PSA to Chancellor Valorum, whoever you are, you have the last town night kill (unless you used it night 1) so be careful with who you pick, due to the DQs every kill is precious.

If Valorum had controlled night 1 to kill lightboy, keep in mind that his identity would be revealed, as stated in his bio Lochlan. So he hasnt used his control yet
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby wolbre04 » 22nd January, 2018, 5:30 pm

Quinn wrote:Who tied up that vote?

This game has been unintentional error after unintentional error, I'll try to post tallies more frequently as nab wasn't aware of the current numbers. I'll post em every 12 hours or so once day phase starts up (assuming I'm not dead as a doorknob)
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Petre » 22nd January, 2018, 5:33 pm

On the bright side, I just got paid for sitting at work for over an hour just listening to people talk.

On the down side, this was a fucking mess. I kinda blame myself for going too slowly while tallying up the vote, but I guess I didn't realize the time until it was too late :rip:
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Lochlan » 22nd January, 2018, 7:50 pm

Right, atm we are running a 1Sk, 4Maf, 7Town build, yeah? No Darth Vader since Anakin got scumkilled. I know my flip, cobalt and Kas are Townfirmed, and for the sake of this I'm going to assume Adyuto is town, as nobody has counter claimed. That's 4 people I can rule out.
1.Sokol,
2.Wolbre,
3.Bucket,
4.Petre,
5.Quinn,
6.Finch,
7.Nab,
8.Jan.
Half of these people are scum. That's a lot. And it's safe to assume the SK is in this group too, which means there's only 3 townies.

I do not think Jan is scum. He's played in such a way that I believe he is town. Vets can be hard to read though, so I imagine Cobalt has a better grasp on this than myself. He's the only other real coach option, so that has to be maintained as an idea, however distant.

Unfortunately, the rest of the list has had some scummy moments. I've put Wolbre and Finch in the clear previously, Wolbre moreso than Finch. Finch produced a good post, but it required a push, and was still lacklustre. More on that in a sec.

That leaves Sokol, Bucket, Petre, Quinn and Nab. Nab's tying up of the vote seems scummy on surface level, but Jan seems to think he's town, Cobalt too. Not entirely sure I buy it, but I trust Cobalt's judgement on this one mostly.

At this stage in the game, I'm fairly certain Quinn is scum. Having narrowed this list down, there's is nobody left available who could successfully coach a scum team. Cobalt is town, Von is dead, Steven DQed. Jan is the only other option. If either Quinn or Jan isn't scum, I will eat my boot.

Based on the interactions between Sokol and Quinn, I would also be happy in believing they are part of a scumteam. Quinn managed to detract from Sokol, until right at the end of the phase, where he voted to lynch him.

This could be because one of them is town, or because Quinn desperately needed to regain a townread, and what better way than being the deciding lynch on a scum member. This is the iffyest part of my theory imo.

Then there's Tyler (BucketTech) who I also believe is scum. Tyler was one of the Gavin lunchers, not big in itself, but coupled with his defence of Sokol here:

BucketTech wrote:I'm unsure about Sokol. Everyone seems to think he's scummier than Lochlan, but I'm not sure I see it.


As well as his attempt to slide in on the Quinn lynch, trying to secure a town lynch afterwards with this quote:

BucketTech wrote:I think I'm going to stay on this Quinn lynch. I really mistrust all the Lochlan distancing he's done. Throughout most of the game, they've had this banter which, in hindsight, just looks like distancing, to me. If Lochlan or Quinn end up flipping scum, I wouldn't be surprised if the other is too.


Scum Bucket would know that Quinn would flip scum, and would be able to get a town lynch out of it, with all the assistance from Cobalt that they wanted. Again this boy is iffy. I would imagine they would not want to martyr off Quinn for this purpose, he'd be too useful. (Potentially a different coach, Jan? Idk)

Finally, I propose Finch as the last member. Petre is who I narrowed it down to, but as the game progresses, I'm getting more and more suspicious of Finch. His lynch of me led to Sokol's lynch falling through (with assistance from Nab, I'd be happy with swapping Tyler with Nab in this model for this part to work best)

Finch also tried his hand at distancing himself from Quinn, building a small case against him, and then making the logical choice to lynch me instead:

Finch wrote:I’m a little irked by Quinn rn. All throughout the game I’ve had a pretty stable townlean on him until about now.

Finch wrote:Given that Loch’s lynch would provide insight about Quinn and that Cobalt has a theory about it, I’m just gonna go ahead and Lynch Lochlan


In which he is evidently keen to jump on the same train of thought as Cobalt. It's easy to run with an existing bandwagon, especially when the person who started it is confirmed town.

The rest of Finch's posts have been little more than commentary, which doesn't strengthen his case. The only time he put his neck out was when he was coaxed and even then he ran through a couple scenarios, which were all fairly anti-quinn and distancing, without being incriminating.


Finch, Nab and Tyler are interchangeable here, I have no idea which one fits where. Jan is a wildcard potentially, and Wolbre... I honestly have no clue. I feel as though he is town. If of course some evidence comes out in the contrary that I've missed, then I'm a fool. Petre is still a totally valid option for scum, I'd mostly put him in Tyler's place if I had to, but I'm unsure, and not willing to dredge through 20 pages to be 100% certain right at this second.


I realise this post was a big old mess, but I hope it gives some food for thought. Townies, write a list of players out, and cross off everyone who's town. That's yourselves, cobalt, Kaspar and presumably Adyuto. From there you have a list of 8 people, 4 scum, 3 townies and 1 SK. Make of that what you will because it's going to take some serious effort to win this game.
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Quinn » 22nd January, 2018, 9:38 pm

Why would scum me try to break the tie

Had I been moments faster I could’ve prevented all this

I’m so done lmao
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Lochlan » 23rd January, 2018, 2:54 am

Quinn wrote:Why would scum me try to break the tie

Had I been moments faster I could’ve prevented all this

I’m so done lmao

There's lots of benefits to scum!Quinn breaking the tie, it would all but townclear you if you put the deciding vote on scum. Regardless, in that list of 8, the 4 mafia resides, and they've played pretty well, so I reckon they must have a coach, be that you or Jan (or Nab, I don't know how much experience he has) (Either that or town has played so disastrously that they are able to flourish regardless)

At the very least lynching in the next day phase or 2 has been narrowed down to a smaller list.
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Lochlan » 23rd January, 2018, 2:58 am

I have some free periods today, I'll work on a model which completely doesn't make use of Quinn in that time, alright sistren? :gaycat:
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Lochlan » 23rd January, 2018, 6:02 am

Ok, here's a second model in which Quinn is assumed town, which we can't really do, but it's an interesting train of thought.

Right then, if we start with the same list as before:

1.Sokol,
2.Wolbre,
3.Bucket,
4.Petre,
5.Quinn,
6.Finch,
7.Nab,
8.Jan.

But this time remove Quinn, as he has insisted so furiously that he is not scum.

1.Sokol,
2.Wolbre,
3.Bucket,
4.Petre,
5.Finch,
6.Nab,
7.Jan.

This increases our odds of finding scum to 4/7 which... Is alright. I still maintain that scum has a coach this game, as this group of people in particular have attracted fairly little attention, with exception to Sokol and Petre to some degree.

The only really suitable coach here is Jan, with Finch and Nab potentially having enough experience to coach to the same level. The key word is potentially. So, has Jan done anything scummy.

At first glance, Jan isn't a perfect poster boy, having voted to lynch Gavin and Kaspar, and thrown suspicion at Adyuto and Cobalt. All confirmed/assumed townies. There's other things too, like a potential pocket here:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Hyacinth wrote:
nab21 wrote:We can lynch Kaspar, who is seemingly a townie, and waste a day phase going after someone we knew was likely innocent, or we could try and figure out who else is a potential lynch candidate.

If Kaspar isn't the Mayor, We'd know, based on the final tally and where he voted.


I'm asking you to work with me on this.

https://www.gayteenforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=75657&start=200#p2512242

Would you be up for anything I listed in here? If not, just say no.


However, Jan made a post scrutinising the decision for Maul to have a kill. scum!Jan would know full well that could result in one of their night kills being revoked, which did happen. The question is: Was it a gambit to bluff town? Having a townfirmed player like Cobalt on your side as scum would be indispensable.

The other option imo is that Finch and/or Nab are scum. Out of these three, Jan/Finch/Nab, I'd bet at least 1 is scum, but more than likely 2. If Jan is scum, Nab isn't I think, as there were clear signs of a potential pocket.

If Jan/Finch is true, the other two members would be difficult to tell for certain.

I don't think it would be Petre, due to this quote:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Hyacinth wrote:1. Look for the scum in Gavin's lynch.
2. Look for the scum amongst the less active.
3. Go for either Kaspar or Petre.


Petre hadn't accrued much suspicion at this point, so it wouldn't make sense for Jan to do this if he was scum. Also, Petre has voted to Lynch Bucket, which I approve.

Which leaves us with Wolbre, Sokol and Bucket. My first bought would be that Sokol/Bucket would be the scum here.

Wolbre has played pretty town the whole game, producing posts with content rather than vague commentary. If he's scum the vets should be hanging their head in shame and passing their titles onto him.

Bucket voted for Gavin, Myself and Quinn, all assumed/confirmed town in this model. He has also been rather reclusive and not offered much in the way of content.

Sokol has landed himself in hot water multiple times, and yet hasn't been lynched by 2 of the people I've proposed. Odd how that works out. Jan voted to lynch him, but it could be for distancing, as Quinn said Sokol could be considered dead weight on the scum team as of right now.

So my final propositions for a model in which Quinn is town would be Jan/Finch/Bucket/Sokol or Nab/Finch/Bucket/Sokol, with Wolbre as a wild card again, because he's too difficult to pin down.
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Finch » 23rd January, 2018, 6:36 am

Lochlan wrote:Unfortunately, the rest of the list has had some scummy moments. I've put Wolbre and Finch in the clear previously, Wolbre moreso than Finch. Finch produced a good post, but it required a push, and was still lacklustre. More on that in a sec.

Finally, I propose Finch as the last member. Petre is who I narrowed it down to, but as the game progresses, I'm getting more and more suspicious of Finch. His lynch of me led to Sokol's lynch falling through (with assistance from Nab, I'd be happy with swapping Tyler with Nab in this model for this part to work best)

Finch also tried his hand at distancing himself from Quinn, building a small case against him, and then making the logical choice to lynch me instead:

Finch wrote:I’m a little irked by Quinn rn. All throughout the game I’ve had a pretty stable townlean on him until about now.

Finch wrote:Given that Loch’s lynch would provide insight about Quinn and that Cobalt has a theory about it, I’m just gonna go ahead and Lynch Lochlan


In which he is evidently keen to jump on the same train of thought as Cobalt. It's easy to run with an existing bandwagon, especially when the person who started it is confirmed town.

The rest of Finch's posts have been little more than commentary, which doesn't strengthen his case. The only time he put his neck out was when he was coaxed and even then he ran through a couple scenarios, which were all fairly anti-quinn and distancing, without being incriminating.


Finch, Nab and Tyler are interchangeable here, I have no idea which one fits where. Jan is a wildcard potentially, and Wolbre... I honestly have no clue. I feel as though he is town. If of course some evidence comes out in the contrary that I've missed, then I'm a fool. Petre is still a totally valid option for scum, I'd mostly put him in Tyler's place if I had to, but I'm unsure, and not willing to dredge through 20 pages to be 100% certain right at this second.


I'm not entirely happy with the sophist rhetoric here, that is if we can even call it rhetoric. To avoid formatting errors in chunks, I'll simply address your arguments against me one by one.

1) Needing to be coaxed to post- It really boils down to needing information and interaction in order to game solve. I'm sure you'd agree that activity has been pretty bad. With minimal activity, it's simply hard to garner correct and concrete information. In fact, I'd argue that if I had simply ran around pointing fingers with shaky-at-best-reasoning, it would be more reason to be alarmed because it would indicate that I was scum looking to lynch town despite minimal activity. In fact, your reasoning here leads me to question why I specifically was called out for this- there hasn't been much activity (to the point of 3 players being DQed) and many other players have been told to share their thoughts because of their lack of concrete posts, yourself included.

The dramatic change in your posting since having been told individually to post screams to me that you were trying to lie low because you were scum but you're currently attempting to copy your usual townplay, which I hear is rather insightful and impressive. Given that your reasoning here is not that, I'm even more inclined to believe this theory. As for your motivations for pointing me out here- I'm basically the only one out of nab, bucket and myself to have called you repeatedly for being scumteam with Quinn and placed a lynch on you. The fact that you're trying to take people out on the basis that they suspect you is a total scumtell.

2) Supposedly causing the tied vote- As I've said before and will reiterate, I am not scum, I had no control over Nab causing the tie. But let's suppose I was scum. What would be my motivation for doing so? The tie was between yourself and Sokol. If I were scum, the only reason to stop the vote from going through would be to save you or Sokol from the lynch. If Sokol was scum like you claim, then wouldn't Nab have voted for you if we teamed up? That way you would have been lynched instead of tying. I don't think you've thought this all through entirely, sis. Also, don't try to make it sound like I only voted for you to hop on Cobalt's bandwagon based on an elusive theory. I'd voiced before that that I thought that you and Quinn were a scumteam. I simply had to vote before EoD and I thought (and still think) that you're suspicious.

3) Distancing- This is where I really have trouble with your rhetoric. It's so evidently fallacious that I was considering not even addressing it. I've never been a big fan of the "distancing" argument because it's counterproductive. Whether a townie reads someone as scum and voices this or scum builds a case against someone to stir shit up, it could always be called distancing if you decide to look at it in retrospect. For example, someone could read our posts and call it "distancing" when deciding to build a case later on. In fact, i could accuse you and Quinn of distancing- which would actually be more compelling, given that after you were called out on being a scumteam, Quinn rather nonsensically and lightheartedly changed his vote to you to prove a point to Cobalt, but then tried to change his vote to Sokol at EoD in order to save you when he realised things weren't going well.


Lochlan wrote:
Finch wrote:I shouldn’t vote at EoD but I also don’t wanna get warned RIP. Tbh the scummiest to me right now is Quinn but I’m not gonna lynch this phase because:
A) As a matter of principle, I don’t believe in lynching experienced players this early in the game because they can be valuable later on as town and I’m not 100% sold on my own case
B) If he is scum, he’s not going anywhere- Cobalt’s onto him and when Loch flips scum it’s basically the end for scum!Quinn.

Given that Loch’s lynch would provide insight about Quinn and that Cobalt has a theory about it, I’m just gonna go ahead and Lynch Lochlan


When? Do you know something I don't Finch?

Regardless, can somebody tally up the votes so I know whether I need to give a pre lynch read fest? I'm in work so like, I don't have loads of time.

Also, this irks me because it's insinuating that I'm scum based on privileged knowledge of you being scum. In that case it would mean that we were a scumteam, and given that we both know our own respective alignments (and if you're scum you'll also know mine but that's a given), I'm pretty sure we can rule that out.

If you were scum, it makes sense that Nab would come in to tie the vote, with Quinn coming in just a second too late to lynch Sokol instead of it tying. I've said it before and I'll say it again- you and Quinn are very clearly a scumteam. I've also said from the get go that Nab has provided a lot of countdowns and tallies but has contributed minimal insight. Funny how you just glided over that and overlooked it.

All I'm saying is that I know where my lynch vote is going, sis. If I die for posting this because I'm onto it (and having said that now it's hard for maf to kill me because then it'll look incriminating as hell- I'm that sure), you know where to look
I finally found something to put here!

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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Finch » 23rd January, 2018, 6:39 am

Also I'm sorry if that came off really harsh. Sometimes the more I think about how irrational things are, the more indignant I get. No hard feelings, right? After all this is just a game and I hope you don't think it's personal.
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby Lochlan » 23rd January, 2018, 7:05 am

Finch wrote:Also I'm sorry if that came off really harsh. Sometimes the more I think about how irrational things are, the more indignant I get. No hard feelings, right? After all this is just a game and I hope you don't think it's personal.

Of course not sis, your post actually gave me a lot to look through, there were definitely parts of my read that weren't 100% ideal when put against yesterdays lynch, and I agreed with you on most of your points, so thank you for responding constructively.

Your point that Quinn and Nab aren't on the same team is sound. I have moments where I'm totally sure Quinn is scum and others where I'm convinced he's town. With regards to that, what would be your proposed scumteam, you say that Quinn and I would be on it, which I understand, but who would your other two be in that case?
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Re: GTF Mafia XXXI: Star Wars - Day 2

Unread postby nab21 » 23rd January, 2018, 8:21 am

I understand your suspicion of me based on the last minute switch that resulted in a tie. I would have been suspicious of someone too of they'd done that. But I will reiterate, that was completely unintentional. I instantly regretted that decision as soon as the tally went up, but it was too late to change it. Whether you believe me or not, that I leave up to you to decide.

However, I still disagree with Finch stating that I've done nothing but post tallies and countdowns, when I didn't find anything he said particularly insightful or memorable either. He was the only person who made a point of commenting on (and disagreeing with) my statement of Mafia team having at least one experienced player, and his reasoning for why he didn't think so was based on the fact that JT was NK'd. (Maybe you're the experienced player in the scum team?)

In my opinion, my blunder at EoD was the perfect opportunity for Finch & friends to shift attention to me. If you're convinced I'm scum team and want to have me off, then I can't change your mind, but what I will say is play close attention to those who are taking advantage of my mistake, because when I do flip town, which I inevitably will, it'll all be clear.
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