Final Thoughts

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Final Thoughts

Unread postby Kaspar » 25th February, 2018, 7:13 pm

Hey everyone, as promised, we're wrapping up the Year Cup in the following days and will be summing up all the points, sharing some final thoughts about what worked, what didn't work, how we can improve in the future and what the whole thing taught us.

I. What was the aim? Why did it happen?

It's important to start with stating the fact that the Year Cup was something new, experimental. The idea first appeared around the end of August with the House Cup finishing, to take that kind of summer activities and copy them onto winter standards. It was Jack, Kris, Kyler and I planning it out, and the initial idea was very different. The users were first supposed to be divided into two "Kingdoms" with the events and challenges expecting way more roleplay and encouragement than what you saw here. The goal was to raise the activity that we usually see dropping highly around autumn and the winter break, opposite to what happens in the summer. From the start it was planned as "kinda like a House Cup, but not quite" with the idea of taking more time and slowly introducing challenges, not like we see it fast-paced summer style.


II. Did it work?

I can see both the negative and positive things the YC did for us as a whole. It definitely tightened some bonds between certain people a bit more, which was the main aim, though on a far smaller scale than I for example expected it to. I'm most happy with the fact that it helped certain people ekhm Brennan ekhm show their potential and become an integral part of the community for good. I loved the enthusiasm on his part, as well as some of his teammates, though I need to make it clear that all in all - the activity was very low and quite disappointing. It was quite a blow for us as the organizers, when people complained there is nothing to do, and when they got stuff to do - they didn't take part :rip: Just look at the dress up and you'll know what I mean.

III. What went wrong then?

In conclusion, the issue that we faced the most was very unfair team balance in my opinion. It is possibly connected with three major organizational mistakes we committed upon setting it up.
First, we changed the way people were chosen, so you didn't have to apply like to the HC - this was made in order to have new users possibly encouraged quickly, yet it failed to make them stick around more than usual as it seems. It led to loads of highly inactive dead users being set to a certain team, which made it even worse.

Secondly, the teams were quite imbalanced and while not taking part in choosing the teams personally, I myself had a final overlook and assumed they would work well, which makes it my shared fault too. Turned out they didn't. A small mistake made for such big difference.

Lastly, we had some nasty stuff going on in the very beginning as due to Jack and Tim only being the judges, we had to put two quite engaged team leaders into the judge position (Kyler and I) and then there were some changes with Kamiel resigning, George getting banned... the list goes on. The turmoil only led to more organizational problems and made they imbalance greater, as Temi ended up holding his team basically on his own.

IV. What can we learn from it?

As a whole community? Well, we can learn that you can't magically bring inactive people back just like that. Our plans exceeded the reality and the lack of engagement killed the event from inside. Even despite that I'd like to greatly thank people like George for helping immensely, with running the thing, Brennan, Sokol and Temi for being very encouraging to their teammates or rather harassing them on daily basis, right Bren? :lol: and all the people that despite huge organizational flops and mistakes, found some joy and fun in the thing as a whole :heart:

V. What do we do with it now?

I would like to hear some constructive criticism and your honest opinions on what you liked, what you disliked, what you'd change or keep etc etc. The staff team really wants the best for the community and you can help us with suggestions. I was thinking that maybe some people would be interested in having Family Feud from time to time but alternatively with individual scoreboard? Don't hesitate to throw suggestions at us, it's always very appreciated :heart:

(Oh and the last round of FF going on rn will be posted too with personal scoreboard so be sure to take part if you want to see your name on the list :P )
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Lochlan » 25th February, 2018, 7:21 pm

The YC was a good idea but a total flop in execution. It would be nice to see the sorts of challenges brought about from the YC and HC played throughout the year, especially like an individual FF. The only issue there is people tend not to participate if they aren't gaining something from it. It could be used to create badges though, for example if you do a dress up, and someone wins, they could get a signature badge for that challenge. Idk, trying to get the community to engage is hard and, as we've seen with the YC, doesn't always work.
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Example » 25th February, 2018, 7:22 pm

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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Kaspar » 25th February, 2018, 7:26 pm

Example wrote:Image

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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 25th February, 2018, 7:32 pm

Frankly the critical issue was that the teams were horribly imbalanced. The reason I basically refused to engage with the whole process was that I saw no point in it because my team was disgustingly full of inactive users. If I had been on a team of active users (like TWW) its more likely I would have had motive to engage with the competition. So in future I would recommend not using the signup method that was used in this instance. Frankly, the House Cup of system of someone saying they want to sign up then being allocated across the varying teams will make for somewhat more balanced between active and comatose users. If we were able to return to a House Cup 2016 situation where I would wake up to 2000 messages in our team Skype chat because we were a really close knit group of people, that would be ideal imo (disclaimer: no idea how to return to that). That chat survived for almost a year and many are still using it, even if its died off mostly now.
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Rwinter96 » 25th February, 2018, 7:46 pm

I would like to initially state that I think this was a good idea in principle, but maybe just too many things were against it for it to truly succeed as planned.

This was something that I am glad happened (and if George is to be believed, I had a part in pushing through) because as stated, it gave us a chance to improve retention and forum interaction during usually dead periods. Granted, I didn't partake in many of the challenges (Blame my introversion for that) but seeing people enjoy their time and meet new users put a smile on my face.

If I remember the House Cup correctly, the challenges presented to us here were similar (if not the same) as then, and that's maybe one of the issues I have with the presentation of this event. It was seen by me, at least, as House Cup but during the dead months, which always feels like it's there purely to fill a hole and therefore inferior. I'm aware this was obviously not the intention, but very little made it feel special and made me think "This stands out".

I obviously have no means to stake a legitimate claim here, but in future I'd love to input ideas or help out in any way with future events like this, whether it be the next House Cup or a revival of this event (be it in this form or under a different guise). Maybe a Forum wide tournament of some kind, I don't know.

Anyway, well done to everyone who got this running and sustained it this long. :thumbsup:
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby CRUSTY SEA MILF » 25th February, 2018, 7:51 pm

Kaspar wrote:I. What was the aim? Why did it happen?

It's important to start with stating the fact that the Year Cup was something new, experimental. The idea first appeared around the end of August with the House Cup finishing, to take that kind of summer activities and copy them onto winter standards. It was Jack, Kris, Kyler and I planning it out, and the initial idea was very different. The users were first supposed to be divided into two "Kingdoms" with the events and challenges expecting way more roleplay and encouragement than what you saw here. The goal was to raise the activity that we usually see dropping highly around autumn and the winter break, opposite to what happens in the summer. From the start it was planned as "kinda like a House Cup, but not quite" with the idea of taking more time and slowly introducing challenges, not like we see it fast-paced summer style.

First of all I would like to thank the organizers for running the YC. You never know how something will go until you give it a shot, so experimenting with this idea sounds like an interesting concept. I def understand the concept of keeping people active during the winter and fall - people can get so distracted that they forget about the server


II. Did it work?

I can see both the negative and positive things the YC did for us as a whole. It definitely tightened some bonds between certain people a bit more, which was the main aim, though on a far smaller scale than I for example expected it to. I'm most happy with the fact that it helped certain people ekhm Brennan ekhm show their potential and become an integral part of the community for good. I loved the enthusiasm on his part, as well as some of his teammates, though I need to make it clear that all in all - the activity was very low and quite disappointing. It was quite a blow for us as the organizers, when people complained there is nothing to do, and when they got stuff to do - they didn't take part :rip: Just look at the dress up and you'll know what I mean.

I def think it was positive and negative in some regards too:
Positives: Helped me become mildly relevant, helped me meet people I never otherwise encounter, helped make new friends, gave me a chance to accomplish something, and helped me learn to work with my fellow teammates to achieve a common goal
Negatives: Very long between challenges at times - people forgot it was a thing, people had to be asked to participate by myself, asking for participation generally isn't fun


III. What went wrong then?

In conclusion, the issue that we faced the most was very unfair team balance in my opinion. It is possibly connected with three major organizational mistakes we committed upon setting it up.
First, we changed the way people were chosen, so you didn't have to apply like to the HC - this was made in order to have new users possibly encouraged quickly, yet it failed to make them stick around more than usual as it seems. It led to loads of highly inactive dead users being set to a certain team, which made it even worse.

Secondly, the teams were quite imbalanced and while not taking part in choosing the teams personally, I myself had a final overlook and assumed they would work well, which makes it my shared fault too. Turned out they didn't. A small mistake made for such big difference.

Lastly, we had some nasty stuff going on in the very beginning as due to Jack and Tim only being the judges, we had to put two quite engaged team leaders into the judge position (Kyler and I) and then there were some changes with Kamiel resigning, George getting banned... the list goes on. The turmoil only led to more organizational problems and made they imbalance greater, as Temi ended up holding his team basically on his own.

Yeah I think that inactivity really caused a lot of holes to need filling throughout the competition. This isn't really the active judge's fault - we lost 2 captains from each team and TWW picked me up as one. TWW had 3 people compares to TFE's 2. Added onto that is the overwhelmingly high activity of TWW compares to TFE's expanse of null active players. Look at the FF rounds. When my teammates and I were able to coerce 25 people into participating each week, meanwhile TFE could barely manage to get 12, it's not shocking that there was a huge discrepancy.

IV. What can we learn from it?

As a whole community? Well, we can learn that you can't magically bring inactive people back just like that. Our plans exceeded the reality and the lack of engagement killed the event from inside. Even despite that I'd like to greatly thank people like George for helping immensely, with running the thing, Brennan, Sokol and Temi for being very encouraging to their teammates or rather harassing them on daily basis, right Bren? :lol: and all the people that despite huge organizational flops and mistakes, found some joy and fun in the thing as a whole :heart:

I think there were several positive things that came out of the YC as lessons. I think that Sokol and Dolly were great captains (I can't personally evaluate Temi's work but it looked effective from the outside). Dolly provided comedic relief and sass, Sokol was in the know and knew what he was doing, and I was just the enforcer who pestered people into participating (I argue I was basically the team Gestapo). Also, I think the riddle was overwhelmingly the most fun challenge to do, and would love to see it come back in HC this year and the future. I had an absolute blast and learned many things: I'm good at organizing, I love competition with my GTF friends, and I have waaay too much time on my hands.

V. What do we do with it now?

I would like to hear some constructive criticism and your honest opinions on what you liked, what you disliked, what you'd change or keep etc etc. The staff team really wants the best for the community and you can help us with suggestions. I was thinking that maybe some people would be interested in having Family Feud from time to time but alternatively with individual scoreboard? Don't hesitate to throw suggestions at us, it's always very appreciated :heart:
I think I would love to see the return of FF in small, sporadic bursts outside of the Cups - and an individual style for it I believe would be much more fun

I'll just set this here
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Dolly » 25th February, 2018, 9:42 pm

maybe if the staff hired people committed enough to keep players motivated instead of their butt buddies...

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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Jacketh » 26th February, 2018, 9:20 am

I agree with pretty much everything, I'd add though that there is a lot (an overwhelming majority) of people on the Discord now who have very little care for the forum. When you're trying to run a competition on the forum and trying to get enthusiasm going & members competing, but there are members who are reluctant to even come on the forum, it makes it very hard.

A Year Cup has been suggested the last few years and one of the arguments against it was that because of how long it would run, it'd be impossible to keep enthusiasm up, especially when compared to the House Cup which is 10 weeks of intensity - perhaps that argument was right and showed.

It was just a huge combination of things. I have concerns that even a House Cup this summer would flop. It's something that everyone looked forward to for three years, was a big deal, and was spoke about months prior to it: "what will the theme be? who is hosting it? Who will be the captains?" - and there was an element of prestige to being a captain and forming your own little community of players for the summer. Me and Mattyk literally started planning it three months in advance and bouncing ideas of each other about everything and anything. We were enthusiastic and knew it was going to be awesome - and that fed off onto people and the captains. It's sad to say, but I really think a lot of people on the Discord have no idea what the House Cup is (because of their lack of interest in the forum), and if they did - would have very little desire in participating. You're right about the Year Cup being "forced" on people, but the alternative (as we might see this summer if a House Cup is hosted) is having teams of 10 people :dunno:

Forum activity really is in a tragic state and seems to just be getting worse and worse as more people join the Discord and have zero interest in the forum. Which is a massive shame. The forum has always ben the community and where you can showcase your views, talents, pictures, wit, or whatever.
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Calcifer » 26th February, 2018, 9:26 am

Jupiter wrote:. It's something that everyone looked forward to for three years, was a big deal, and was spoke about months prior to it: "what will the theme be? Who is hosting it? Who will be the captains?" - and there was an element of prestige to being a captain and forming your own little community of players for the summer. It's sad to say, but I really think a lot of people on the Discord have no idea what the House Cup is (because of their lack of interest in the forum), and if they did - would have very little desire in participating. :



Yeah, gotta say I really agree with this. It'd be good if there were some way to encourage the Discord folks into the challenges more - The best I saw was the Riddle challenge, because there was loads of discussion over it. In that kind of vein, I'd maybe suggest a couple of challenges where each team only has the one entry, and it's a collaborative discussion and effort between each team to actually create it. Not something as individual as an art or a dress up challenge, maybe something like telling a story. Each member can contribute a bit to it, with the team leaders responsible for organising and arranging it all.
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Jacketh » 26th February, 2018, 9:32 am

Yeah, I agree with Cal there too.

Maybe the Moderators can take responsibility for hosting the House Cup this summer (because I have no idea who else would be willing; at least Ethan was committed enough to replace me last year :P), and soon get the ball rolling on that.

How are you going to ensure it doesn't flop like the Year Cup?
When is going to run?
What is the theme going to be?
How are you going to get members engaged enough/caring?
Who will the captains be?
What changes would you make to last year?
Will the teams have their own Discord server or just a channel on the regular Discord?

All that needs discussion if there is going to be a House Cup this summer.
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Dolly » 26th February, 2018, 1:50 pm

lol maybe if these incompetent mods hadn't banned ethan, Year Cup, and soon House Cup, couldve been a thing
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby George » 26th February, 2018, 2:10 pm

Well, I certainly think that the Year Cup this year was an experience, and I was definitely grateful to have an opportunity to take part in running it (and yes, don't worry, the final family feud results will be posted friday!). However, I do think we have some things to consider, for the House Cup in the coming summer.

1) The sign ups. Users should have to ask to be a part of a team, not assigned. What happened this year was where users were assigned, not everyone who was active on the forum, wanted to be in a team, or actually stayed on GTF, ended up in teams. This inflated numbers and really slanted actual activity. A great case for this was Bourdain; not forum active at all, and now departed from GTF, he had no interest in the House Cup at all. When he asked to be swapped to TFE, he was swapped with Quinn, an active user, who would go on to contribute. This was a blow to TFE, who despite already underactive, lost another active user for someone not interested. For the summer cup, users must must must must must choose to take part.

2) The teams. Having two teams made it very difficult to sustain proper interest once your team fell behind. In the House Cups, if you weren't first, you weren't automatically last. Seeing one team dominate entries, family feud, and eventually points, would have been seriously demoralising and I had concerns about that raised to me after I helped to organise things in January onwards. We must be committed to 3 or more teams next time.

3) The launch. The launch of the house cup was very messy, truth be told. People knew what teams they were in already when they saw the discord tags. It took away the fun of posting a thread, listing off who was on that team, and letting people find out. Moreover, the first challenge was an awful choice and I really think that the way it was handled, alongside the first round of family feud which never went out. This severely undermined confidence in the cup I feel and meant that by the time everything picked back up almost a month and a half later, it felt too late.

4) The challenges. One thing I strived for when I began helping with the cup was ensuring that all challenges had at least 3 themes for participants to choose from. Challenge 1 was quite frankly an awful prompt (like seriously, who the fuck greenlit that? Who didn't anticipate that being a problem?) and I think that failing to offer an alternative (even after the concern was raised) really killed the challenge where users suddenly weren't able to necessarily access it properly. I have always loved the writing challenge (when I have taken part, its usually the reason why), but this year I couldn't touch it. Please, ensure challenges are refreshing and accessible.

5) The behind the scenes. I will hold my hand up now and say that my drama in November did undermine the leadership of my team. However, the failure of the judges to judge and declare the results to the first challenge on time, and failing to keep the updates, really killed the cup. Points weren't/havent been added for a long period, and had to be caught up on, judging was slow (I'll hold my hand up, when I have judged, I haven't been necessarily the fastest, but I think thats something we need to work on), and it felt disconnected. The disappearance of the first round of family feud moreover, and the change of leadership for the judges early on mired the overall admin. This is something we need to make sure doesn't happen again next time. I would be happy to throw my hat in to the ring - if you'd want me, of course ;) - to help with running this in Summer, but I do think we need a comprehensive plan on how we're going to run it, deadlines, dedication, etc. I will however own up to my part in undermining that.


Overall, I think the Year Cup went alright, moreso after Christmas. I was happy to help, but I do think we have lessons to take from it.
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Cobalt » 27th February, 2018, 2:10 am

Dolly wrote:lol maybe if these incompetent mods hadn't banned ethan, Year Cup, and soon House Cup, couldve been a thing

You really get a kick out of calling the mod team incompetent. I guess you've given up hoping you'll ever become one. :tea:
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Dolly » 27th February, 2018, 2:35 pm

that and im too busy improving myself
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Cobalt » 27th February, 2018, 7:58 pm

Dolly wrote:that and im too busy improving myself

Receipts?
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby Lightbringer » 27th February, 2018, 8:42 pm

I somewhat agree with the point George made. I'm as busy as it gets in my age and I was added to a team (TFE) that I was honestly not going to contribute much, if at all.

I mean assigning people is fine, but people need to volunteer for that first.
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 27th February, 2018, 10:17 pm

Jupiter wrote:(because I have no idea who else would be willing; at least Ethan was committed enough to replace me last year :P)

until you intervened and took over
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Re: Final Thoughts

Unread postby CRUSTY SEA MILF » 27th February, 2018, 11:32 pm

George wrote:-snip-
I would be happy to throw my hat in to the ring - if you'd want me, of course ;) - to help with running this in Summer, but I do think we need a comprehensive plan on how we're going to run it, deadlines, dedication, etc.

And I would be more than happy to help out too if you needed or wanted assistance with future cups (if we are able to gather the people to run it ^_^)
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