New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Off-topic posts go in here; this forum is only loosely moderated.

Do you agree with the decision to make Sokol a moderator?

Poll ended at 12th January, 2018, 12:58 pm

Yes
26
74%
No
9
26%
 
Total votes : 35

New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 7th January, 2018, 12:58 pm

It has been a tough few weeks for GTF's staff, with Kyler and Jacks' resignations from the moderation team, and Kamiel's from CA. As such, we have decided to appoint two new mods, Sokol and Woollyhoolly (Temi), whom I hope you'll agree are good choices. If you don't, that's not a problem, but you can expect a knock on your door tomorrow from the GTF secret police, and it won't be fun. Before you say anything, they're both new and we're aware of this, however both have distinguished themselves as excellent CAs: they're active and popular, have participated in the administration of many public forum events and behind the scenes things and, importantly, neither are so hawkish as to prevent you from doing all the illicit things you're scared this new tyrannical regime will take from you. At a time when increasing forum activity (to match our now wonderfully busy Discord server) is of utmost importance, I hope how you see the traits both members hold will make that easier for us. They're dedicated, active and I think they'd work very well with each other and the current team.

In conjunction with the appointment of these two members, we have decided to abolish the Community Ambassador position. While the work the (many) users who have served is much appreciated, we feel it's best that all staff work together at the same level to avoid hierarchical divide, and we are confident that 6 moderators is enough to keep this place more-or-less "not shit." Also, this gives you one thing less to complain about in my confessions thread!

This thread shall be used for the discussion of Sokol's appointment as moderator. A friendly reminder that "discussion" is not voting "No" and not explaining why; we try to be a little bit democratic and are genuinely interested in hearing what you have to say. If you don't explain your opinions, I shall have absolutely no sympathy for any #NotMyModerator campaigns in the future, though "#ImpeachJack" was fun. (Obviously you don't have to, but I'd encourage it if you want your voice heard).

The poll will run for 5 days, until midnight on Saturday 12th January GMT.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Dolly » 7th January, 2018, 1:16 pm

No. Sokol is too inactive to be a good moderator. He comes on like once a month and he is woefully absent in The Wild West discussions. Sorry, but a couple salacious photographs won't be enough to convince me otherwise.

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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby George » 7th January, 2018, 1:32 pm

I will be posting this response, word-for-word on each thread, for clarification.

Upon reflection and consideration, I cannot and will not (and have not) voted in favour of the confirmation of either Temi or Sokol on a variety of grounds, stemming from both personal, and logistical. I will lay them out below, in 3 points.

1) I cannot vote "Yes" for Sokol, on the grounds of his activity. Mods need to be at the forefront of our community, and you whilst have have taken the initiative to post a lot, and have run things such as "Game Night" in my absence, you have had to stop running Game Night for personal reasons stemming around your activity. You disappear from Discord for days at least at a time. This, whilst a criticism, is understandable, of course, as you are a student. But if you accept you cannot be as active as we need, I simply cannot support that as a moderator candidate, because you will just become obscure. Moreover, with Temi, whilst I am more inclined to vote yes on this matter, I simply feel that you are not present enough on the forum, but I cannot hardly blame you for that. None the less, I do not feel either candidates are able to be as visible as some other staff, especially Sokol.

2) Moreover, I worry about bureaucracy: This will now give us 6 moderators. At this moment in time, and as we have seen in recent months (particularly with Year Cup, and other events), the number of moderators has been a hindrance to the ability for the forum to churn out things effectively, as moderators are either inactive for periods (see above), or simply largening the debate. I worry that the addition of 2 more mods (to an effective 6, the most mods we have ever had whilst I have been active on GTF) will simply make this process worse.

3) Thirdly I turn to staff turnover: we have had 2 high-profile moderators been appointed and resigned with only roughly 6 months each in the post, and countless Community Ambassadors equally. I worry that the appointment of two relatively-new users risks this high-turnover continuing, and I do not want us to have to keep appointing mods in months time because one of the new two have resigned for whatever reason, or simply fall out of activity on GTF (as many of the new users have). This will be detrimental for the reasons listed above.

Overall, I feel that the current number of moderators is a perfectly fine choice, with 1 moderator in each major time zone. We are staffed effectively, and at the right number to carry out decisions succinctly, and to add two more people, who I feel personally have not had the time necessarily to demonstrate the dedication that the other staff have shown to the forum prior to appointment, is detrimental. GTF does not need more mods at this time, it needs to close the mod team, build a staff image, and work with that image effectively as it has in recent years. To appoint more staff now would simply undo months of hard work.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 7th January, 2018, 1:47 pm

Dolly wrote:No. Sokol is too inactive to be a good moderator. He comes on like once a month and he is woefully absent in The Wild West discussions. Sorry, but a couple salacious photographs won't be enough to convince me otherwise.

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He's on pretty much nightly? He's one of the most active users?
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby George » 7th January, 2018, 1:48 pm

JonathanT88 wrote:
Dolly wrote:No. Sokol is too inactive to be a good moderator. He comes on like once a month and he is woefully absent in The Wild West discussions. Sorry, but a couple salacious photographs won't be enough to convince me otherwise.

Image


He's on pretty much nightly? He's one of the most active users?

He isnt, and has disappeared for weeks at a time, so much so that other users have had to run game night on a night's notice because he mentions he wont actually be there the next night, etc. I appreciate he may be busy, but he's certainly not as active as he once was.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Flower » 7th January, 2018, 1:50 pm

Yes. Oui. Ja. Si. Hai. Ne. Shi. Sim. Da. Evet.

I'm new but I think he deserves that. And he's cute.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Dolly » 7th January, 2018, 1:55 pm

Flower wrote:Yes. Oui. Ja. Si. Hai. Ne. Shi. Sim. Da. Evet.

I'm new but I think he deserves that. And he's cute.


This is why polls can't be trusted.

JonathanT88 wrote:
Dolly wrote:No. Sokol is too inactive to be a good moderator. He comes on like once a month and he is woefully absent in The Wild West discussions. Sorry, but a couple salacious photographs won't be enough to convince me otherwise.

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He's on pretty much nightly? He's one of the most active users?


No. He only just started to be somewhat active in the past few days. Who knows when he'll disappear next. Tim and JT made promises to be active and look at them now...
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 7th January, 2018, 2:01 pm

George wrote:2) Moreover, I worry about bureaucracy: This will now give us 6 moderators. At this moment in time, and as we have seen in recent months (particularly with Year Cup, and other events), the number of moderators has been a hindrance to the ability for the forum to churn out things effectively, as moderators are either inactive for periods (see above), or simply largening the debate. I worry that the addition of 2 more mods (to an effective 6, the most mods we have ever had whilst I have been active on GTF) will simply make this process worse.


The increase in the number of mods is necessary for two reasons.

Foremost, we have lost Jack. He was undeniably the most active moderator, probably the publicly visible moderator, and certainly the moderator who performed the most behind the scenes duties. It's hard to appreciate as someone who isn't staff, and I appreciate, George, that you have been, but many of the things we wish to do in order to increase forum activity (messaging redditors, as Jack did, for example) is a strain with the current moderation team. Kaspar is busy with school, and as summer rolls on will only get busier; Tim is, unfortunately, very active (due to, I believe, IRL commitments, I am very busy and, frankly, unwilling to perform an equal share of the work with the current quantity of moderators, and JT is busy and not as active on Discord as Temi or Sokol. If you want the necessary tasks done, in order to spur on (currently very encouraging) forum activity, then I can safely say, as one of the people attempting to do those tasks, that we need more mods.

Secondly, we are not, in effect, adding two staff members, but removing one. The CA position is being abolished and Jesse is standing down ( :rip: ) with that. Sokol and Temi have been moved from CA to mod, a position with more responsibilities, greater, power, etc. We are not adding staff, but asking more of the staff we currently have, and if we wish to maximise the efficiency and economy with which we run the forum, I think that's a good move.

It is no more difficult to settle on a solution with 6 mods than with 4. We take a simple majority and,if one cannot be found, we ask for René's input or have at it till we agree. Provided all mods are present for the conversation (and I have had no problems with this EVER), then things will work just as smoothly. Promise.

If a moderator is inactive (understandably, in most circumstances) then surely it's better to have more mods to pick up the work than fewer, forcing that users inactivity to have a tangible impact on the totality of our moderation? When Sokol, Temi and Kaspar all have exams at the same time, JT, Tim and I will surely do our best to minimise the impact of that; with 4 mods, we are left with, potentially, only one in charge of the forum. You see the issue?

3) Thirdly I turn to staff turnover: we have had 2 high-profile moderators been appointed and resigned with only roughly 6 months each in the post, and countless Community Ambassadors equally. I worry that the appointment of two relatively-new users risks this high-turnover continuing, and I do not want us to have to keep appointing mods in months time because one of the new two have resigned for whatever reason, or simply fall out of activity on GTF (as many of the new users have). This will be detrimental for the reasons listed above.


I don't follow your logic. The appointment of two keen, active mods who haven't spent nearly enough time on the forum to tire of it is going to INCREASE turnover? Surely they are the ones most likely to stay? And what if, with only 4 mods, one more of us "falls out of activity?" That leaves 3 mods, with the potential for yet another to "fall out of activity." It doesn't make sense.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 7th January, 2018, 2:03 pm

Dolly wrote:No. He only just started to be somewhat active in the past few days. Who knows when he'll disappear next. Tim and JT made promises to be active and look at them now...


So, believing as you do that two of our four mods are inactive, you're happy to leave everything to Kaspar and I on the grounds that someone "might" not fulfil promised levels of activity?
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Hierax » 7th January, 2018, 2:06 pm

OK about being inactive: that was due to exams, I really needed to focus on school because I was failing some main subjects (which are saved now). After exams, there were holidays, which resulted in family visiting and my parents gave them my room because I have the biggest room which meant no privacy for me and I couldn't check GTF.
I know I haven't been active in December as much, but I can say that I will be more active in the future, even though I'm already trying to be more active at the moment as well.

I don't really know if this justifies me being inactive or makes you change your mind but this is a (brief) explanation of why I've been inactive.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Dolly » 7th January, 2018, 2:17 pm

JonathanT88 wrote:
Dolly wrote:No. He only just started to be somewhat active in the past few days. Who knows when he'll disappear next. Tim and JT made promises to be active and look at them now...


So, believing as you do that two of our four mods are inactive, you're happy to leave everything to Kaspar and I on the grounds that someone "might" not fulfil promised levels of activity?


Yes, because it is difficult to fire a moderator. With this issue, people like George are able to make the argument "We have 6 mods. Why do we need to hire more?" when, in reality, 3 would be inactive.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby CRUSTY SEA MILF » 7th January, 2018, 2:58 pm

I have an issue with the idea of vote and then post your reasoning, first of all. I've been here for just over 2 months, I kinda know my way around, but in the grand scheme of things, my opinion really means jack shit in these regards. If I vote no for anyone, first of all, I'm immediately going to get a death stare from just about everyone as my vote is public. I get along with both of these lovely people, but if I were to vote no and literally have to type out why, it makes me look like I'm anti progress, power hungry myself, and anti community. Additionally, I feel like it would potentially hurt my friendship with these two if I were to vote no. Just look at the current way this thread is going, and look at all the past ones (I'm looking at Jesse's). I don't feel comfortable casting a yes or no vote at all as I feel the yes path takes me to handshakes, pats on the back, and high fives, and the no path gets me dirty looks, annoyance, and will only put my relationships into question. I would be willing to personally PM a current mod and follow up my vote with an explanation there, otherwise, I'm not voting at all. I feel it's unfair to put me in a position like this even though I want to be actively involved in the forum, and, thus, I'm not going to vote unless I'm given this option at all. It just seems wrong to me if EVERYONE can see my vote and has a chance to take a swipe at me (as clearly has happened previously)
For the sake of space I'm not posting this on both. Thanks guys.
Again, other people can decide what happens if this is the only way things can work. I'm too new to want to deal with bs and attacks on me
/rant
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby CRUSTY SEA MILF » 7th January, 2018, 3:01 pm

This idea is leaving a really bad taste in my mouth, so if I'm being a bitch I have to deal with it
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 7th January, 2018, 3:01 pm

wolbre04 wrote:I have an issue with the idea of vote and then post your reasoning, first of all. I've been here for just over 2 months, I kinda know my way around, but in the grand scheme of things, my opinion really means jack shit in these regards. If I vote no for anyone, first of all, I'm immediately going to get a death stare from just about everyone as my vote is public. I get along with both of these lovely people, but if I were to vote no and literally have to type out why, it makes me look like I'm anti progress, power hungry myself, and anti community. Additionally, I feel like it would potentially hurt my friendship with these two if I were to vote no. Just look at the current way this thread is going, and look at all the past ones (I'm looking at Jesse's). I don't feel comfortable casting a yes or no vote at all as I feel the yes path takes me to handshakes, pats on the back, and high fives, and the no path gets me dirty looks, annoyance, and will only put my relationships into question. I would be willing to personally PM a current mod and follow up my vote with an explanation there, otherwise, I'm not voting at all. I feel it's unfair to put me in a position like this even though I want to be actively involved in the forum, and, thus, I'm not going to vote unless I'm given this option at all. It just seems wrong to me if EVERYONE can see my vote and has a chance to take a swipe at me (as clearly has happened previously)
For the sake of space I'm not posting this on both. Thanks guys.
Again, other people can decide what happens if this is the only way things can work. I'm too new to want to deal with bs and attacks on me
/rant


The votes are not public. You are under no obligation to post your reasoning, though it encouraged in order that we establish a dialogue with members, which I feel is important if we want to take users' opinions into account. Polls like this have always been a crucial part of the appointment process, as a safeguard against mods who the community seems to oppose (as has happened twice).

And if you'd feel more comfortable PMing a mod about your opinions, feel free to do so in absolute confidentiality.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Vortex » 7th January, 2018, 3:04 pm

he's cute so yes
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Dolly » 7th January, 2018, 3:41 pm

I’ll continue further. Sokol can make as many promises as he wants, but the same promises and excuses were made my Tim. and Cobalt. It would be unfair to GTFers to appoint someone who has been inactive and incapable of displaying the necessary drive to be a moderator. Based on observations, I do not believe he would be able to spend the necessary amount of time to make comprehensive decisions.

Plus, we have two users here who have said explicitly they are voting “yes” because they find Sokol attractive. This is a shameful reason to vote one way or another and an embarrassment to the system.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby George » 7th January, 2018, 3:45 pm

Dolly wrote:I’ll continue further. Sokol can make as many promises as he wants, but the same promises and excuses were made my Tim. and Cobalt. It would be unfair to GTFers to appoint someone who has been inactive and incapable of displaying the necessary drive to be a moderator. Based on observations, I do not believe he would be able to spend the necessary amount of time to make comprehensive decisions.

Plus, we have two users here who have said explicitly they are voting “yes” because they find Sokol attractive. This is a shameful reason to vote one way or another and an embarrassment to the system.

Okay Jonathan swung me onto the fence but this has sort of pulled me off; mod candidates categorically have a habit of promising to improve when called out, and often very few (if any of them) ever have. Whilst I accept that the votes are meaningless (they're just ranking) it is correctly very wrong that users are voting for superficial purposes; it makes a mockery of the poll almost as bad as the voting campaigns (not including my fraud) that was employed during Jesse's poll.

Moreover, it is very difficult to remove a mod even if public opinion on them shifts or they do become inactive, see: some of our community ambassadors ;) and some historic mods, and I think that to "trust" that someone will change is silly. Let us not forget that Jesse also promised to change and that thread still failed.
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 7th January, 2018, 3:49 pm

Dolly wrote:Plus, we have two users here who have said explicitly they are voting “yes” because they find Sokol attractive. This is a shameful reason to vote one way or another and an embarrassment to the system.


Both of whom were probably joking, and one of whom has further clarified his reasoning in the other thread. For someone who insists the newbies are incapable of humour, you're coming across as distinctly humourless. :P
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Vortex » 7th January, 2018, 3:49 pm

Dolly wrote:I’ll continue further. Sokol can make as many promises as he wants, but the same promises and excuses were made my Tim. and Cobalt. It would be unfair to GTFers to appoint someone who has been inactive and incapable of displaying the necessary drive to be a moderator. Based on observations, I do not believe he would be able to spend the necessary amount of time to make comprehensive decisions.

Plus, we have two users here who have said explicitly they are voting “yes” because they find Sokol attractive. This is a shameful reason to vote one way or another and an embarrassment to the system.

get a life lol
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Re: New Moderator Confirmation Poll - Sokol

Unread postby Hierax » 7th January, 2018, 3:58 pm

Well what else do you want me to say than "I promise"? I can't really do anything else since I'm already improving my activity. :shifty:
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