I'm Not Racist

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I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Dolly » 30th November, 2017, 12:53 pm



What are your thoughts on Joyner Lucas' new rap song I'm Not Racist? It is about two dueling characters, one a white Trump supporter and the other an African American leftist. The moral of the rap is that there are truths to each side, but they can easily turn to racism.
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby CRUSTY SEA MILF » 30th November, 2017, 1:12 pm

I was expecting a thread about how you aren't racist, this is so disappointing :facepalm2: :runaway:
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Dolly » 30th November, 2017, 1:33 pm

wolbre04 wrote:I was expecting a thread about how you aren't racist, this is so disappointing :facepalm2: :runaway:


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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Woollyhoolly » 30th November, 2017, 1:59 pm

I 2nd brennan, this is clickbait
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 30th November, 2017, 2:40 pm

It's a truly wonderful video, but the fact you've interpreted it as about how "there are truths to each side" speaks to your political views, not those in the video. It's about how by actually talking to black people and listening to their concerns, white people (particularly Trump voters) can hope to change their views, and sympathise with what the African American minority endure.

The white character is racist throughout, frequently uses nigger (often directing it at the other guy) while excusing his racism for X, Y and Z reason. He talks about black people using tax money to buy liquor and weed, how black guys want to be "deadbeats" and how he has no pity for "you black niggas." The whole section consists of nothing other than racist generalisations aimed at the black guy who he associates with all these stereotypes. To the Trump supporter, other guy is a "black" and nothing else, and with his skin colour comes 1001 racist assumptions to boot. Not sure how you can possibly defend a list of common racist tropes directed invariably at a single individual ("you guys," "take that gold out of your mouth" "you'll do anything for a attention") as containing truths, nor why the song's black writer would want to.

The second half of the video consists of the black guy debunking all these racist claims: how problems faced by blacks are a hangover from slavery if they're not directly impacted by the institution itself, how he is forced to sell drugs if he wants to eat because he can't get a job, how 2Pac is a black icon for a reason, and how the white guy simply doesn't understand the "black experience" and his life, something evident in the list of racist tropes used in the first half.

In the end, when the white guy hugs him, it's a sign that discussion has helped him understand the black guy's experience, and that listening to each other is the only way we can hope to burst the racist bubble and not remain divided. Where at the beginning he had "no pity for you black niggers," at the end he shows some pity, and recognises (at least implicitly) the black man's struggle and, perhaps, how some of the things he said were wrong. Whether or not you agree with the black guy's interpretation of Black Lives Matter, the oppression of the minority and white people's attempts to appropriate black culture, these are the opinions the rap wishes to promote.

So make no mistake Pity, this video doesn't at all wish to argue that there are "truths" to the white guys argument.

TL;DR: Great song, but only because it's the kind of nasty leftist propaganda I just can't get enough of. :P
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Woollyhoolly » 30th November, 2017, 2:58 pm

If there’s gonna be an eloquent award jon should get it.
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Kaspar » 30th November, 2017, 3:09 pm

Woollyhoolly wrote:If there’s gonna be an eloquent award jon should get it.


He gets the genius each year so I guess that works
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Dolly » 30th November, 2017, 4:49 pm

Jon, I pulled that summary from a video review by two African American men. Please stop trying to dissect and produce fallacious arguments that lack quality viewpoints! :)
Last edited by Dolly on 30th November, 2017, 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 30th November, 2017, 4:51 pm

Pity wrote:Jon, I pulled that summary from a video review by two African American men. Please stop trying to dissect and produce fallacious arguments that lack quality viewpoints! :)


Well they're wrong. Am I supposed to accept that your interpretation is valid simply because it's been taken by two black guys?

Also "dissect and produce fallacious arguments that lack quality viewpoints" is one of the most meaningless sentences I've ever read. What do you mean?! :argh:
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Dolly » 30th November, 2017, 4:53 pm

They both bring up factual information. For example, the Trump supporter brings up the fact that the African American community has problems with fathers staying with mothers and then proceeds to use the "n" word. Similarly, the other man says he hates white people and also brings up the point that some African-American men sell drugs to support their families.

Please educate yourself and dissect the lyrics further. Thanks. :D
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 30th November, 2017, 5:11 pm

Pity wrote:They both bring up factual information. For example, the Trump supporter brings up the fact that the African American community has problems with fathers staying with mothers and then proceeds to use the "n" word. Similarly, the other man says he hates white people and also brings up the point that some African-American men sell drugs to support their families.

Please educate and dissect the lyrics further. Thanks. :D


The white man's criticisms are almost all obscenely racist, and are all aimed at a black individual who he, without exception, associates with these generalisations and stereotypes, while making liberal and directed use of the word "nigger." The song does not attempt to make the white man seem "reasonable but slightly racist: the tone is aggressive throughout, he says black people sell their food stamps for drugs, that they blame all their problems on other people, that they party instead of working. It amuses me that you mention the song's reference to "problems with fathers staying with mothers" because of how much you've doctored what was actually said, which is that black people would rather "aim their guns" than "claim their songs." While the two things might literally mean the same thing, in the context of this song they do not. There's a reasonable point about black problems, and then there's "nigger nigger, [rant about crime], you do nothing but drugs, [insert generalised attack on black people aimed at individual]."

Not really sure what you're arguing when you say that the black guy "also" argues African Americans sell drugs, when what he's saying is a rebuttal of what the white guy argues. Where the first man suggests drug dealing is done in negligence of responsibility to family an suggests its just them being "deadbeat" hooligans, the black guy argues that black people do so only because that's how they can sustain themselves in a world where they can't find employment. It's not a point of "factual agreement" as you seem to put it, it's one of the many ways in which the black man corrects the other guy's blatant, unapologetic racism.

You have to think about it this way: if the writer of the song had wanted it to be interpreted as about "two people making decent arguments in spite of their racism," would he have made the white guy so unambiguously racist and the black guy so clearly struggling, so clearly oppressed and so sympathetic as a character? When the writer created this he had a purpose, and had he wanted it to be what you seem to think, the song would have taken an entirely different form (one which doesn't involve one of the men you seem to think is spreading "truths" calling someone a nigger throughout the verse).
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 30th November, 2017, 5:16 pm

As for the "I really don't like you white motherfuckers" bit you mention, that's less an attempt to prove the black guy is just as racist, but rather an attempt to demonstrate his frustration with white people similar to the one in the video, and at their inability to understand his, and his community's, problems.

If the point of the song was that they were both racist surely generalised criticisms of "white people" would be present throughout the verse, when in fact the black guy directs all his attacks at the white guy as an individual.

Again: the white man's verse takes the form of an endless list of cliché racist assumptions, liberal use of the word "nigger," followed by the similarly cliché "I'm not racist I have black friends. This contrasts the black man's verse, which takes the form of a rebuttal and clearly evokes his frustration with the world. It is the contrast between the two verses which gives the song meaning.

Can I see the video you've derived (/stolen :P ) your interpretation from? I want see if they do a better job of persuading me than you currently are.
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Lochlan » 30th November, 2017, 5:44 pm

I actually really like this video, like Jon said, the contrast is key here. I looked for a synopsis and it took me seconds to find this one.
It opens with a white man in a "Make America Great Again" hat ticking off racist trope after racist trope:
How African Americans are lazy, aimless, shiftless. How there's a double standard when it comes to using the N-word.
But get to the second verse, and the song takes a surprising turn -- when a young man in dreadlocks gets his chance to respond, to rebut the generalizations, to recount being stopped by the police and rebuffed for jobs.

Link to the article I copied this from:
[Reveal] Spoiler: Link
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/29/entertainment/joyner-lucas-not-racist-video-trnd/index.html

Jon has this down to a T, he obviously really gets it.

I do love the way that the white man says a lot that isn't news to our ears, it's stuff we hear a lot, yet don't hear challenged nearly as much, which this song does. It gives a voice to a less heard group, and I appreciate that.
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Dolly » 30th November, 2017, 7:40 pm

Jon, you are misreading the song entirely. The song was written to illustrate the racial tensions that are created when people do not discuss their ideas and create racist arguments. When both parties react with racism instead of mutual understanding, nothing is solved. You should really look at the lyrics instead of making a political point when this was just a thread about a well-manufactured song.

Anyways,

Here are some of the sources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVi7V-XSwiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX53EOC8rDg
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/29/entertain ... index.html
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 30th November, 2017, 7:54 pm

Pity wrote:Jon, you are misreading the song entirely. The song was written to illustrate the racial tensions that are created when people do not discuss their ideas and create racist arguments. When both parties react with racism instead of mutual understanding, nothing is solved. You should really look at the lyrics instead of making a political point when this was just a thread about a well-manufactured song.

Anyways,

Here are some of the sources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVi7V-XSwiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX53EOC8rDg
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/29/entertain ... index.html


I read the lyrics... 3 times. And then I quoted the lyrics. And then I made two further posts, both of which make close reference to the lyrics.

I'm not even trying to make a political point- this is about what the song is about, not about the actual arguments made by either character. I'm just kind of baffled by your interpretation, and think that you're misreading it due to your identification with some of the points made by the fictional Trumps supporter, regardless of the writer's intention in having the character make those points.

At least we can agree that the song is well-manufactured. :lol:
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 30th November, 2017, 8:00 pm

wow what clickbait
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 30th November, 2017, 8:04 pm

TheBrunswickian wrote:wow what clickbait


I was that disappointed I decided to start an argument anyway. Honestly no excuse for a Pity thread which doesn't lead to 15 pages of shit slinging.
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Cobalt » 30th November, 2017, 9:13 pm

I was REALLY looking forward to Pity trying to explain that he's not racist... but alas, another example that he is.
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby Dolly » 30th November, 2017, 11:24 pm

Cobalt wrote:I was REALLY looking forward to Pity trying to explain that he's not racist... but alas, another example that he is.


This thread is about the song, given the sub-forum. What are your thoughts? What influences do you think it has on modern rap music? Do you agree with the song's message about race relations? Do you find it interesting that neither of the two men is the rapper who wrote the song? Please contribute! :noes:
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Re: I'm Not Racist

Unread postby TheBrunswickian » 1st December, 2017, 5:00 am

JonathanT88 wrote:
TheBrunswickian wrote:wow what clickbait


I was that disappointed I decided to start an argument anyway. Honestly no excuse for a Pity thread which doesn't lead to 15 pages of shit slinging.

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